Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 10


17:46 Oct  9, 1995

Subject: Re: Steve Hassan - Professional bigot
Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.scientology
Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.scientology
References: <44aema$mcm$2@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> <453vtn$qci@zippy.cais.net> <813018543.7894@tilman.berlin.snafu.de> <4557v4$no@zippy.cais.net> <456e9e$5an@nyx.cs.du.edu> <457sk8$d58@zippy.cais.net> <458fus$pt@unlisys.unlisys.net>
Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470
Distribution:

Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote:
: In <457sk8$d58@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J.
: Anderson) wrote:

: > Now, not all deprogrammers work alike. I do not know Hassan's
: >methods, but I have a general idea of what such people do.

: Well I guess this ends the thread. I suggest you go read Hassan's
: "scriptures" to know how he works.

Hardly,

I was not referring to his deprogramming activities. My primary
exposure to him has been his shrill anti-Moon comments on the media.
He seems to be interviewed by the mainstream liberal media whenever
some extremist religious group does something bizarre, and he is
treated as an expert because he happened to spend a short time
in the Unification Church. We have as much in common as the AUM
and People's Temple as the Catholic Church does.

: Tilman

Damian Anderson         +1-301-921-0082                        damian@unification.net
Unification Home Page   http://www.unification.net
Web Pages in English, French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese
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17:50 Oct 9, 1995 Subject: Re: Steve Hassan - Professional bigot Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.scientology Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.scientology References: <813018543.7894@tilman.berlin.snafu.de> <45b6sk$7eh@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Distribution: AndyBacus (andybacus@aol.com) wrote: : >You miss a point. Steve Hassan make a living by helping people recover : from mind-bending cults. Read a few pages in his book, where he describes : how he gets people back to normal life. Hassan masters this because he : *cares* about people. Of course, you get told that he tortures : people, kidnaps them, etc, etc. Believe this if you like.< : Well, Steve candidly admits that he participated in involuntary : deprogrammings. Of course after deprogrammers started getting criminally : prosecuted, Steve backed off. He now hires himself out as a consultant : for $1,000 per day. (His standard fee for providing cult related guidance : to agrieved families). Instead of forcible deprogrammings, Steve teaches : parents to lie to their children - to get them home under false pretenses : - where they are subjected to Steve's "exit counseling services. It is : interesting that the primary accusation that Steve makes about the : Unification Church is that it uses "deception" to lure unsuspecting : recruits to join the Church. These days, deception is Steve's primary : advice to the parents he advices. Funny how that works. Hee, hee ... This sure is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, except the kettle is shiny and pristine, and the pot is as black as Old Nick. :-) Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web Pages in English, French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
21:08 Oct 12, 1995 Subject: Re: Attack of the 50 foot tall Moonie (Was Steve Hassan - Bigot) Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.scientology,alt.slack,alt.religion.kibology Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.scientology,alt.slack,alt.religion.kibology References: <44aema$mcm$2@mhafm.production.compuserve.com> <4557v4$no@zippy.cais.net> <457pdo$5s5@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> <45c50l$o3c@zippy.cais.net> <45ff37$8fa@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service Distribution: William Barwell (wbarwell@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM) wrote: : In article <45c50l$o3c@zippy.cais.net>, : Damian J. Anderson wrote: : >William Barwell (wbarwell@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM) wrote: : >: In article <4557v4$no@zippy.cais.net>, : >: Damian J. Anderson wrote: : > : >: ********* tripe deleted ********** : >: > : >: >We are being singled out for attack by anti-religious zealots. : > : >: Moonies are attacked for their lies and deceits, their contempt : >: for others, their rapacious recruiting of the young, their hard core mind : >: control techniques, and more. : >: Also their basic beliefs are wrong and stupid. : > : >Excuse me, which planet do you live on? Have you had any contact : >with the Unification Church recently. What you just said is completely : >false. Either you are ignorant, or you are the liar. : Prove it, don't just attack. Listen, I have no need to prove our innocence. You make outrageous unsubstantiated accusations and then ask me to prove that they are false! You have the onus to prove that they are true. In our system of justice, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. : >: Moon is not the messiah, not the third Adam. : > : >How would you know? What is the Messiah and how can you recognize : >him when you see him? Was it obvious to the people of 2000 years : >ago? Evidently, it is no easy task to recognize a messiah before : >he is killed. : It is up to you to prove he is. Or for that matter, that : "messiah" is not a concept as unreal as fairies or unicorns. : What sort of evidence would show such a concept is feasible? : How about true? Now prove Moon is a mmesiah, or the messiah! : Your cult makes the claims. The onus is on you to show hard evidence. You sound like the people who asked Jesus to come down from the cross. I will not cast pearls before swine. If you are interested in Rev. Moon's teachings, go read my Home Page. : The best Moon can do is rip verses out of context from teh Bible, and try : to redefine the meaning of these verses. Note, I do not believe the Bible : to be true in any of it's theological claims. Then why waste my breath on you? : Prove These basic theological claims that Moon bases his claims of : being teh new messia are true. : Hard evidence now. Sorry, no proof would ever satisfy you, so I am not even going to try. : >: Using front groups your cult has tricked young people into joining : >: a cult that they often have not realized had anything to do with the : >: Meglomanic Rev. Moon until weeks or even months after they were involved. : >: Such trickery is unacceptable. : > : >This is just plain false. : CARP? Stiil active? Yes! Still on campuses everywhere? : Yes? Still failing to tell their prey that CARP is the moonies. : Same old deceits as when the cult first hit these shores. CARP is open about its affiliation to the Unification Church and to Rev. Moon. Rev. Moon's son-in-law Jin Hun Park Moon now runs CARP. : Want me to hit alt.slack, alt.relgion.kibology and ask for tales of : Moonie/CARP recruitment from campuses nationwide? It would be easy to do. : Same old deceits as always only they are more notoripus now. Give me evidence of something that has taken place in the last 12 months. : There were a few people doing this back : >in the 1970s, because they were overly concerned about being persecuted : >if they said who they were, but that practice was stopped a long : >time ago. We are very open these days, very direct in our affiliation. : >Look at my signature. Am I hiding anything? : > : You ain't recruiting on Campus either! CARP does. CARP willl leave out : pertinent facts to the unwary and naive. You are either a liar or : don't know shit about what is happening on campuses nationwide. Prove your allegations. : If the Moonies are less sneaky, it is because so many students take : delight in wising up other freshmen to these sneaky CARP creeps and who : they really are. : >: Moon's cult has done much to cause concern and richly deserves : >: the contempt most decent persons who know anything of this : >: rapacious cult will hold it in. : > : >Name three things that he has done that causes concern. : Buying influence with money. You may label generosity as influence buying, but that would be a very cynical view. : Starting front groups and inviting famous persons without telling : them of the moon ties of the event these persons are invited to attend. : In an attempt to obtain seeming respectability. Name ONE such incident. We have many famous people working with our many organizations, such as George Bush, Mikhail Gorbachev, Ted Heath, Maureen Reagan, but they all very clearly know of the connection with Rev. Moon. : Aggressive and deceitful recruitment of young persons, especially : vulnerable homesick students on campuses. : CARP. We are open in our affiliation. You interpret enthusiasm as aggression. : Moon's incestous ties with South Korean military and intelligence : organizations. This is blatantly false. This claim was made in the 1970s and no evidence was ever found despite years of investigations funded by millions of dollars of taxpayers' money. Give me one shred of documented evidence. : Intentions to start a world theocracy based on his : ludicrous 'perfect family' claims. This is called the Kingdom of God and Jesus taught the same thing. : Secretive nature, secret teachings and speeches Moon attempts to : keep from being made public. Well, they are not secret, just not sold in bookstores, mostly because bookstores would probably not carry them. A lot of the church's teachings are on my Home Page, now in 8 languages. : Exploitation of followers. : religous excesses. Mass marriages of those who have not even really met : each other for example. Bizarreness like this is not a sign of a healthy : religion. You interpret it as bizarre, but such marriages are entered into voluntarily. : For starters. I am sure more keen observers of Moon : can add more. : If you want to be more religously bigotted about it, I am sure many : rabid type Christians can complain about heresy, blasphemy and Moon's : outrageous claims. I am not A Xian so I will leave that to others. : You religous types fight it out amongst yourselves. No thanks. Heresy means that you teach unorthodox teachings, but since you do not subscribe to any orthodoxy, such claims are spurious. : >: This is a cult that to this day will not willingly allow Moon's : >: private cult insider speeches to be published openly so the entire world : >: can freely read what Moon REALLY teaches and believes. : > : >Well, this is also false. I have MANY of those speeches on my home : >page, go and see for yourself. That is what is published inside : >the church for members to read. You can't get any closer to his : >actual words than being there and understanding Korean. Otherwise, : >you can read them in the original language, or rely on the translator. : >The paper versions of the speeches are available from HSA-UWC headquarters : >in New York: : Ask Hassan about this. He has tried to publish some and has been legally : hassled. SOME of these things Moon DEFINETLY does NOT want published. : See Hassans's web page! Of course he cannot publish them! He doesn't own the copyright. The guy is shamelessly commercializing his bigotry against our church. He has no right to make money off the writings of someone else. : >HSA-UWC USA National HQ : >4 West 43rd Street : >New York, NY 10036 : >(212)997-0050 : >Attn: Speech department : > : >You can buy a subscription to current speeches, and can get historical : >speeches back to 1977. Earlier ones have not been published in English or : >are out of print. : And of course ALL of his speeches are here? : Not what I am told. No, they are not. Transcribing and publishing them is labor-intensive and time-consuming. Whatever is available to the church members is available to anyone. : >: Thisis a cult that lied to tens of thousands of it's lower ranking : >: members by holding the book Unifictaion Principles as representing the : >: full church teachings when this was not true, and many teachings : >: were kept secret from them and the world at large. : > : >Nonsense! The members are well aware that the skeleton of his teachings : >are the Divine Principle and the flesh is Rev. Moon's 200 volumes : >of speeches over 40 years, dating back to 1956, most of which are : >still untranslated. : A lie. Numerous books on cults I have quote witnesses who were mislead : on thsi very point. It was a common trick and a common criticism amongst : book writers in the 80's. : You are disingenious here. I doubt that they were misled. The volume of Rev. Moon's writings and teachings is so great that it takes years to assimilate it all. : >: It is another sneaky lie cult. : > : >You are just an angry SOB. : You bet. Being angry does not mean being dead wrong. : Moon's cult is still whacked and potentially dangerous. : Though personally, I think Pat Robertson is more dangerous to America : than Moon. I am not saying that your being angry means that you are wrong. However, you ARE wrong! :-) : But an autocratic wannabe messiah who seriously thinks he is teh messiah : and is here to raise the 'perfect family' to usher in a theocratic : world order and a new Universal religion is not right in the head. : Those who are his fanatic followers are not right in the head. : The money he has makes this crazy cult a potential danger to be taken : quite seriously. That is just your opinion, and fortunately, we have freedom of religion in America, and it will stay that way if I have anything to say about it. : Excuse me, but everything you said here : >is false, and you come across as angry and ignorant in the extreme. : >It sounds like you need your brain washed out with soap! : Ooooh! What a dead give away! Did you hear this? : Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help! : He wants to brain wash me! : Help! Help! I'm being oppressed! Ha ha! Another victim! : >: It's teachings are as insane as any other silly cult. : >: It wastes lives and breaks up families. : >: It is rapacious and unethical. : > : >Nonsense. : True. : 1. Is true. It is a silly cult. I would guess that EVERY RELIGION is a silly cult to you. We just happen to be a popular target. : 2. This cult became notorious specifically because of 2. : THIS SORT OF CRAP IS WHY YOU ARE SO DISLIKED! : Kid disappears from college, cult refuses to let parents : speak to kid at length alone, kid ends up being married in some : bizarre mass marriage, kid is now a stranger to parents. Families are in crisis and conflict all over the place. Divorce, alienation among families, and many other problems in the family are endemic in America. Just because a young adult may not want to speak to their parents, it does not mean that we are to blame for that. : This sort of shit has been common for year sin your rapacious asshole cult. : THIS sort of SHIT is WHY your cult is loathed, hated, disliked, : and is so notorious. We are hated because we PRACTICE what we PREACH. Jesus told his followers to be expect to be hated by the evil world. : You may yell and scream and protest and bitch and whine and : posture and emote and protest all you want, but the stink : of deceit and zealotry and fanatacism is on your stupid cult : and will never wash off. You will never be considered a 'real' or : acceptable religion. Because you are not. We will see. : And Moon is deluded so all of this is a waste. : Third Adam indeed! We will see. : >: Moonism is no better than Stupidology. : > : >Oh, so that's your religion, Pope Chuck. : No Stupidology is Andy Milne's religion. : Mine is Slack. I won't ask. : >Excuse me, I tend to be generous and polite with most people, but : >you come across as such a total ignoramus, full of your own falsehoods, : >spouting them with anger, that you try the patience of a saint. : The prophets of old, stinking, dressed in animal skins, : wandering in from the desert to below unpalatable truths to kings and : commoners were not very welcome either. Truth is rarely : welcome. But us Truth Prophets will not shut up. : "Bob" commands me to speak that Slack may pour from the skys like a : gentle rain. You are deluded if you think of yourself as a prophet. If you were truly a prophet from God, you would welcome Rev. Moon. : It is you soul theives, lurking in the Universities to steal children : that try the patience of the world. : CARP lurks and the Church Of The SubGenius oppose this slacklesness : that besets our nation. : We ran CARP off of the UCLA campus back in the 80's and we can do it again. To Satan, we are "soul thieves", to God, we are bringing His people home. If people join our church, they do it of their own FREE WILL. So, we'll just let people choose for themselves, okay. : >Try coming back with some respect and you might get a reasonable hearing. : I have my hearing, and you are not my only audience. Okay, fine with me. : "We have come for your children" : - Johnny Rotten : Pope Charles : SubGenius Pope Of Houston : Slack! Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net (English) Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
21:50 Oct 13, 1995 Subject: Re: Why not just say Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.scientology,alt.slack,alt.religion.kibology Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.scientology,alt.slack,alt.religion.kibology References: <45mfdv$k3f@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service Distribution: Rick who is too cowardly to give his real name (an234911@anon.penet.fi) wrote: : richa011@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Eric B. Richardson) wrote:> : > However, it has gotten out of hand, and a lot of innocent children are : > being harmed by it. : A lot more innocent children, and adults, are being harmed by the : Moon organization(s) themselves. Please give details, if you have them. : > So we have started requesting that people use the term Unificationist. Try : > it. See how easy it rolls off the tongue, every bit as easy as : > Presbyterian, or Episcopalian, even easier than Unitarian-Universalist. : Sure. Just pretend that your cult is legitimate and we'll all forget : the harm it does. I don't think so. Tell us what harm it does. : > Just a little respect and consideration goes a long way. : You should respect and be considerate of this newsgroup. You don't : belong here. You are interfering. You are continuing the abuse of : people formerly in your group by harassing them. That is sheer : vindictive revenge. You are perpetrating revenge upon people here : who are exercising their free speech and free minds to recover from : the human rights violation perpetrated upon them in the name of Moon : and his organization. Excuse me, but I created this newsgroup, and I am a Unificationist. Why would you assume that it is the anti-religious bigots who created the group? : > yours, itl : Will you please stop posting your pro-cult crap here? This isn't the : place. If people feel they have been injured by Moon's group, then : they deserve a place to discuss this without interference from : Moon's followers. I will post whatever I please here, and so will other members of the Unification Church, and its friends and detractors. It is a free unmoderated forum, and you with your totalitarian anti-cult ideas cannot stop the free flow of information, either pro or con. : A rose by another name... Moonie, Unificationist, whatever... : it still adds up to DESTRUCTIVE CULT. So speaks a true bigot, with a white anon.penet.fi sheet over his head! : Rick S. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net (English) Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
21:36 Oct 14, 1995 Subject: Re: Why not just say Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.scientology,alt.slack,alt.religion.kibology Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.scientology,alt.slack,alt.religion.kibology References: <45mfdv$k3f@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <45n54a$ool@zippy.cais.net> <45n9up$jcn@news1.radix.net> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Distribution: Reverend Jack (revjack@radix.net) wrote: : Previously, Damian J. Anderson done wrote: : : Excuse me, but I created this newsgroup, and I am a Unificationist. : You created alt.slack? Cool! No, I created alt.religion.unification. The writer was referring to the newsgroup a.r.u suggesting that it had been created for those "recovering" from religion. This is not so. I am a believer in the theology and the practices of the Unification Church, and an active member now for 18 years. : __________________________________________________________________________ : Reverend Jack at the First Zen Gnostic Emergentile Church of the SubGenius : Minivan Clench =There is no way to Slack, Slack is the way= : revjack@radix.net http://www.radix.net/~revjack Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net (English) Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
22:07 Oct 14, 1995 Subject: Re: Jesus' original mission Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic References: <453pfu$pih@zippy.cais.net> <45664o$90g@comet.connix.com> <457me0$d58@zippy.cais.net> <45evd4$104@cutter.clas.ufl.edu> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Distribution: Thomas F DiLustro (ponzini@grove.ufl.edu) wrote: : Damian J. Anderson (damian@cais2.cais.com) wrote: : : Lawrence Frank (frank@folklore.connix.com) wrote: : : : Damien Anderson writes: : : While God is indeed all powerful, He acts within the realm of principles. : : Since God created us to be His children and thus His equals, He : : cannot just do everything for us, or we would not merit the position : : He would then give us. To obtain the position of Son of God and : : co-creator with God, one has to defeat Satan. Since God knows that : : we fallen people cannot do that unassisted, He prepared the messiah, : : Jesus, who was a man like us in everything but that he had no sin. : : He was the model for us all to follow to become perfected in God's : : image, and freed from sin. When he said "I am the way", he was : : saying "The way I live is the way you need to go. Obey me and you : : will become like me." : This shows that you actually believe in exaltation, just like the : Mormons. We do? I have never heard of this doctrine! Tell me what we believe! : You may not even realize what you believe but it is this: you : will become god yourself. Oh, now there you go, telling me what I believe! Guess what? I don't believe that. : satan was cast from heaven for wanting to : replace God. In Genesis satan tempted Adam and Eve by telling Eve that : they would become like God. This is just another instance of the : self-same sin. Becoming LIKE God is part of God's plan, but to become God himself? Impossible. There is only ONE GOD, and He has always been God and always will be, and nobody is going to take His job. However, the scripture also says that Satan is the "god of this world", indicating that it has been dominated by evil. : We are not going to become gods. We are adopted by God through his grace : but there is nothing that says (other than Moon's own mindset) that we : will become gods. There is one God and one God only. He is the Father, : Son and the Holy Ghost. I agree, that there is one God and that there should be no imposters. But I believe that God is the Father, and that the Son and Holy Spirit are manifestations of God rather than God Himself. : To even consider that you are going to become a god is blasphemy! I am not going to become "a god", but I will become LIKE GOD. If we fulfill the promise of the Christian message and love as Jesus commanded us to, then we will be God-like, but never God Himself. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net (English) Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
22:17 Oct 14, 1995 Subject: Re: Jesus' original mission Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic References: <45fej8$4p1@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <45ga4e$m1t@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Distribution: Bob Mendo (bobmendo@aol.com) wrote: : No, it's not confusing. Jesus came to die for our sins. He rose from the : dead by the plan of God. Plan A. Not a surprise to God. He knew all along : (Isaiah 53, Daniel 9, Micah 5, Genesis 3)... : Shalom. : Bob No, Jesus DID NOT COME TO BE MURDERED BY A MOB. He came to build the Kingdom of God, hence his preaching on the subject, and his terrible anguish at the time of the crucifixion. He had a lot more work to do, but it was left unfulfilled until the Second Coming. Let me ask you a few of questions: (a) If you were alive at the time of Jesus, would you have called on Pilate to crucify Jesus? (b) Would you have participated in the killing of Jesus? (c) Do you think that the plan of God required of you to believe in Jesus and follow him at the risk of your life, or to crucify him? (d) Do you think that the people who killed Jesus were doing God's will or Satan's will? (e) Do you think that Judas sinned by betraying Jesus, given that Jesus said that man would be better off not to have been born than to do this? (f) Would you have been angry and indignant at the unjust murder of your master, or would you have rejoiced at the injustice of it all? This is just some food for thought, but I just cannot accept that God wanted the Jewish peple to crucify Jesus. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net (English) Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
22:35 Oct 14, 1995 Subject: Re: Rev. Moon misquoted by Steve Hassan Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic References: <44ktuf$6fi@cutter.clas.ufl.edu> <812580294.16243@tilman.berlin.snafu.de> <44qfrd$70h@zippy.cais.net> <44tkro$jhi@cutter.clas.ufl.edu> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Distribution: Thomas F DiLustro (ponzini@grove.ufl.edu) wrote: : Damian J. Anderson (damian@cais3.cais.com) wrote: : : I believe that Rev. Moon is here to complete the work left unfulfilled : : by Jesus Christ. Jesus came to create the Kingdom of God on Earth, : : and it is not here yet, so someone has to do it. Are you volunteering? : This is arrogance on the part of Mr. Moon as well as a false religious : dogma. Christ's fully capable of finishing His own Kingdom when He : decides the time is right. According to Unification doctrine, Rev. Moon *IS* the Christ. God sent Rev. Moon to complete this work, so God is using the man He anointed for the task. : : And yes, Rev. Moon is on a par with God and that is the destiny : : of every human being, including you and me. Even Jesus taught that. : Now, THIS particular sin is found in Genesis 3 when the Serpent tells Eve : that she can be like God. You can _know_ God, you can be brought to : heaven through the grace of Jesus Christ, but you cannot ever, ever, ever : become on a par with God. You can become _like_ Jesus, you can comport : yourself in situations as He would, you can become like Jesus in the next : life (if you are in heaven) but you can never, ever, ever, ever become on : a par with Christ. This is exactly why Moon is a false teacher and a : false god. I asked you to give biblical evidence for your position. You have yet to do this. I claim that God COMMANDS us to become perfect as He is, as Jesus is quoted as saying in the Sermon on the Mount "You must be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect." (Matt 5:48). : Again you put Moon on par with Jesus Christ. This is sinful. Yes, of course I put him on a par with him or above him, since that is what I believe. Tell me where is says in scripture that thinking that anyone is greater than Jesus is sinful. Now I want chapter and verse. : Now, also, : the quotes were purchased by Hassan when he was with the Unification : Church. They are published by you but since withdrawn from circulation : since they are no longer the correct party line. This may or may not be true. I don't know. : : Now we don't have tapes and transcripts of Jesus' words, but we do have : : those of Rev. Moon dating back to 1956. I have some of the early : : books. There are 200 volumes (yes two hundred) of Rev. Moon's speeches : : published in Korean, so you have plenty of other sources to go : : to if you want to know what he teaches on a particular topic. : Why don't you go to the quotes that Mr. Hassan shows, and then by direct : evidence refute them? You don't. Perhaps because you can't? I would not want to attempt to refute a statement that may not have been made. : : Now, my guess is that Steve Hassan is not so interested in what Rev. : : Moon actually said. His interest appears to lie in writing anti-cult : : books and selling them. Is he not a professional anti-cultist? : : It would appear that Rev. Moon is the best thing that ever happened : : to Steve Hassan. He gets to go on TV and pontificate about Rev. : : Moon and how terrible he and his movement are, yet his livelihood : : depends on making Rev. Moon out to be the bad guy. : Mr. Hassan's livelihood is based on alerting people to dangerous cults of : which UC seems to be one. True religion is dangerous to Satan, and his allies. The world will be won over to a particular way of thinking, not by military or political power or by grandstanding in public, but by the example of love put into practice. That takes time, and I believe that time will show that Rev. Moon has the most advanced system of thought and practice of any religion up to this time. Every religion has gone through an initial period of persecution and opposition from its contemporaries, but I would venture to say that none has been as successful during the lifetime of the founder as Rev. Moon's has been. Christianity took four centuries to gain widespread acceptance in the Roman Empire. It may be a hundred years before the true impact of Unificationism is seen. And then again, maybe it will be sooner. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net (English) Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
23:01 Oct 14, 1995 Subject: Re: Rev. Moon misquoted by Steve Hassan Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian References: <44tk5r$jhi@cutter.clas.ufl.edu> <44v4od$74a@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4521k4$ei8@cutter.clas.ufl.edu> <45avtf$bb3@cutter.clas.ufl.edu> <45dm4q$asf@cutter.clas.ufl.edu> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Distribution: Thomas F DiLustro (ponzini@grove.ufl.edu) wrote: : Eric B. Richardson (richa011@maroon.tc.umn.edu) wrote: : : In article <45avtf$bb3@cutter.clas.ufl.edu>, ponzini@grove.ufl.edu (Thomas : : F DiLustro) wrote: : : > The biggest problem with Moon is that he insinuates that _he_ is god. : : Tom, he *does* not. Rev. Moon is very clear and careful about the : : relationship between himself and the Father, just as Jesus was. You are : : showing a great deal of ignorance here. I agree with Eric, Rev. Moon does not claim to be God himself, but to be one with God as Jesus was. : The direct quotes that Steve Hasaan has from Moon clearly show that Moon : does not quite understand what the relationship between himself and God : is. He says that he is on a par with God. Even that God will somehow : defer to him as the greater of the two. That is absurd _and_ : a grievous sin. Rev. Moon teaches that God is our Father and the natural desire of every parent is that their children become better than the parent. I find no problem with this, despite the fact that it may ruffle some orthodox feathers. :-) : "The whole world is in my hand, and I will conquer and : subjugate the world." : (MASTER SPEAKS 5/17/73) Rev. Moon is in the position of the Lord of the Second Advent. The bible says: "The woman brought a male child into the world, the son who was to rule all the nations with an iron sceptre." (Rev. 12:5) So this statement is consistent with scripture. : "Then in one sense, Father, Heavenly Father will say "Reverend : Moon is far better than me, the Heavenly Father". In a short : period of time, He will synthesize, He will crush the enemy and : let them surrender. Our Master senses this kind of feeling of : the Heavenly Father. Also, he is proud of himself and : appreciates that Jesus Christ's unfinished job of 6000 years : has been completed by him in his lifetime." (MASTER SPEAKS : 7/31/74) As I said before, anyone who accomplishes the will of God for all of history to build the Kingdom of God on Earth, will have accomplished what neither God nor Jesus have been able to accomplish up to this point. Unificationism teaches that the key point that he fulfilled was to establish a sinless lineage in the form of the True Parents, and to provide a vehicle for all people to be reborn into the lineage of the True Parents, namely, the Blessing. This is the reason for the large weddings. This is the Unificationist sacrament of removal of original sin and the adoption into the True Parents' lineage. So, I would say that God would be pretty grateful to Rev. Moon. : : To take it one step further, what is your relationship with the Father? : : Jesus was very clear that God is *your* father. What do you wanna be when : : you grow up if God is your father? Hmmm? : I am His son by _adoption._ I am not going to become a god. Is _that_ : what you are saying? No, he means that you should become like your Father, if you are in fact His son. : : Tom, goes on to say: : : > You must prove this accusation against Mr. Hassan. I do not know the man : : > but I doubt that he has "deprogrammed" people from Catholic convents or : : > the Church of God or even gay relationships. : : Look, as I said to Tilman, the key phrase is *Hassan and friends* for : : Hassan is trained by the pioneers of deprogramming like Singer, Patrick : : and Kelly. These are things they have done, and you can find that : : information for yourself. : You insinuated that he "deprogrammed" gays and Catholics and CoG people. : Then you say "You go find my proof." That is ridiculous. YOU made the : assertion. YOU provide the proof sir. I agree with Thomas here, that Eric should find the proof of his own allegation. I do not make any allegations against Mr. Hassan about deprogramming, since I have no first hand knowledge of it. A friend of mine who did experience a deprogramming attempt told me a few days ago that he plans to write an account of it for alt.religion.unification, so we shall see. My beef with Hassan is to his role as a public persecutor of the church in the media and in books. It is clear to me that he is an opportunist making a buck on anti-religious prejudice. The rest of the exchange between Eric and Thomas appears to be more of the same. : : > It is my impression that he : : > sticks to facilitating the recovery of people from mind numbing, mind : : > controlling cults. If it numbs our minds, how come so many of us have advanced college degrees? I have three advanced college degrees. : : With this, you insinuate that I am mind numbed, and mind controlled : : without any knowledge of me, other than the fact that I say I have respect : : for the teachings of Rev. Moon and the Unification Church. If I am mind : : numbed and mind controlled then why converse with me at all? : Well if the shoe fits. I wonder why you insist that I go research your : arguments. Eric is in medical school. He is no dummy either. : : Why don't you try discussing substantive issues, instead of making your : : mind numbed accusations of mind control? : You guys called Steve Hasaan's credentials into account. I didn't. I : merely stated that I was under a different impression than the one that : you implied. If you are mind numbed or mind controlled, that is your : business. I just don't choose to do your research and if you can't back : up your accusations then they are without merit. I don't call Hassan's credentials into account. He is an ex-member of the Unification Church and knows how the church was in the 1970s. Any other knowledge he has is second hand. I have been a member since the 1970s, and I have worked with the church in England, France, the USA and Brazil. I graduated from the Unification Theological Seminary in 1984. I think that I am more qualified to talk about the church than Hassan is. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net (English) Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com