Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 36



Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:59:35 -0400 Subject: Re: On Becoming a Unificationist Hi Ali, Here is another very belated answer. On Fri, 9 Aug 1996, Ali wrote: > One of the issues I have had with my current religious affiliation > is the lack of actual spirituality I am perceiving among at least > American practitioners of it. There may even be a decrease in > active membership now - which should be a problem for a religion > that claims to be THE religion of this age. I think every religious group is experiencing this to some extent. > The problem seems to be an overidentification with the administrative, > "political" aspects of the religion (interesting for a religion where > one is supposed to be non-partisan). I was attracted to this religion by > many of the spiritual teachings. I have found these same attractive > teachings in the Unification Church. Whatever our faults, the Unification Church is very busy these days about spreading its message and in organizing conferences worldwide to bring together people of disparate viewpoints to effect dialogue and sharing of expertise and traditions, so that conflicts can be resolved, to further the cause of world peace. A new effort to come is the bringing together of people from North America and South America in international friendship conferences to break down the barriers between predominantly Protestant North America and predominantly Catholic Central and South America. > One thing that I am looking for is a religion that "walks the walk" > and doesn't just "talk the talk". So, what is the daily spiritual > regimen of a Unificationist? Well, I cannot speak for all Unificationists, but my daily routine is to get up at 4:30 am, take a cold shower to wake up, and then have 5 am prayer for 20 minutes or so. Then I read Divine Principle or Rev. Moon's past sermons for one hour, and then get on the Internet for another hour to post my mailings and answer e-mail. Then I get the kids up, see the kids off to school, and go to work. More recently, I worked at home, so this meant going to the basement to work. Or if I worked outside the home, then I would work until 6 pm, by which time the babysitter would have fed the kids. Some evenings, I am able to work late, or attend meetings as my wife takes care of them. On other nights we switch. Every night, I read to the kids and pray with them. They are in bed by 10 pm and I am in bed my midnight, or later. Often, I take walks to meditate and pray. On Sunday, we attend church. This year, I am teaching second grade Sunday School, but I may end up teaching an adult class at the church. > Let me explain the question. For example, a Baha'i is supposed to read > the Baha'i Writings twice a day, do daily obligatory prayer, and go to > Feast (the Baha'i spiritual gathering) every 19 days. When they read the > Writings, it is not just to read but to "deepen" (one's faith) through > the Writings through prayerful meditation and reflection. What do > Unificationists do? Well I read Unificationist writings 20 minutes, twice a day, that is my goal, or sometimes an hour at a time. We go to church every Sunday. Usually when I read Rev. Moon's sermons, it is with a prayerful heart, and often, in meditating on what he says, I come to deep realizations. > My observation has been that many have joined the Baha'i Faith > on a purely intellectual basis - to further their own political > agenda (although they are supposed to be non-partisan). There are few material advantages to being a Unificationist as we are still such a persecuted minority. It keeps us clean, at least! :-) > The Baha'i teachings that are presented to the public are simply the > more "liberal, progressive" (read PC) ideas such as the oneness of > humanity, the ultimate unity of religions, etc... The more spiritual and > dare I say it - conservative ideas - such as family values, punishment > for crime, meditation, etc... are rarely brought up to inquirers even > though these teachings are in the Writings. When they are, they are > presented in almost a defensive manner. Well, you can see from my writings and the sermons of Rev. Moon that we are very bold to proclaim the most challenging aspects of our beliefs. This may be because our Messiah is still on the Earth and can call us on the phone! And he does! :-) We strongly proclaim the message of true family values and sexual purity. > The other problem has been the notable lack of results from > Baha'i efforts of these issues. What has been the Unificationist > approach and results from ways to address these issues? The Unification Church has a high rate of marriage stability, compared with the society at large. We do not have a stated policy on punishment for crime. Also, I forgot to say that we have DAILY prayer meetings, at midnight, as the women of the church were requested to pray together every night. I go whenever I can get the time away, usually once or twice a week. > The Divine Principle seems to present a fairly complete > assessment of the historical process needed to bring the world > to what in Baha'i terms is called "the Most Great Peace". The > Baha'i Faith really only addresses this in vague sentiments. Plus > I think that perhaps the non-partisan approach that Baha'is must > use may not be very effective or pro-active. The Unification Church is very active and highly effective in the business of making connections with powerful people and using those connections to influence the world in the direction of peace. However, by their very nature, such activities are sensitive and cannot be talked about freely in public. Let it just be said that Rev. Moon recently went on a tour of South America and met in person with 8 presidents. Now, Mrs. Moon is on a speaking tour in Japan with former Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulrooney, and with Maureen Reagan. Many people in high places heartily believe in what Rev. Moon teaches and stands for, and what he is doing in the quest for world peace. > How do you know that Rev. Moon is who he says he is? What are > the proofs that I should examine, other than his writings and > speeches? I appeal to you because you are more the expert than > I on this. Baha'is make great use of numbers and dates (revolving > around the year 1844) to "prove" that Baha'u'llah is the Lord of the > Second Advent, the Mahdi, etc... My problem is that I am dealing > with two opposing claims. Help me on this. Only the Messiah can solve the problem of sin. Only the one without sin could discover the secret of Satan's crime and only he can eradicate it. For that reason alone, one could regard Rev. Moon as the Messiah. It is a difficult question to answer. How would you explain that Jesus was the Messiah without reference to his own teachings? Then again, the idea of the Messiah in Unificationist teachings is the one who eradicates the original sin and brings people to oneness with God. That means that those who follow after Rev. Moon themselves become messiahs also. It is just that he is the messiah-maker, the coach of the band of prophets, the trainer of messiahs. You may have seen the concept of Tribal Messiah in the writings that I have been posting. What this means is that one must achieve messiahship on many levels, individual, family, tribe, race, society, nation, world, cosmos. Rev. Moon has accomplished all of these eight levels, as announced on August 31, 1989 in the Ceremony of the Accomplishment of the Eight Stages (Pal Jong Shik). He only asks us to fulfill the first three, up to the tribal level and become Tribal Messiahs, and then we can inherit from him the merit of having accomplished them all and stand on the same level with him. People who belong to the Unification Church have all kinds of levels of faith and belief. Even if you do not agree doctrinally with Rev. Moon, there is plenty of room to agree with him on the good works he does in the world. Ultimately, belief in the Messiahship of Rev. Moon is a matter of faith, and coming to that belief is a consequence of studying his teachings and examining his works, and deep prayer to find what God thinks of him. It is not a conclusion to be arrived at merely by the intellect. > Also, please explain the differences between different church > membership levels. Well, there are basically those who work in full time missions for the church which would correspond to the clergy and religious orders of other faiths, and then the people who attend church and are involved part-time in church activities. They would correspond to the lay people in other churches. All members at some point receive the Blessing in marriage, and then they become a Blessed Couple. It used to be that most members were single and full time missionaries. Now a large percentage of the membership are raising families and working part time for the church. From a meeting I had last week with Rev. Moon at a workshop in Alaska, my impression is that he would like more people to be full-time missionary members who would bring in tithing lay people who would support the missionary activity. He especially emphasized that he wanted the Unification Theological Seminary graduates to be in church missions rather than working at secular jobs. I have to find a way to do that and still support the family, since I am a UTS graduate. > These should be good introductory questions. Don't worry - there > will be more detailed and complex ones later. I hope that gives you a good set of introductory answers. > Thanks, > > Ali ITPN, Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:33:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: I entered into news groups On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Alexey Yakovlev wrote: > Dear Damian, > > I entered into news groups of another server in Russia - Glasnet. > It has news groups fron Usenet and many others (including its own). > I found there Russian Orthodox Church witnessing. > Can you share little bit of what you send to which groups? Or you > send the same to chosen groups. In which groups you send > information. > I want to make plan of witnessing to news groups and prepare > text resources fro that. > > ITPN, Alexey Hi Alexey, and everyone else, I have sent different things out on the newsgroups and the mailing lists over time. However, it seems that I get a better response from the shorter posts, simply because people are more likely to read them. If I send 20 pages of speeches out a day, it is unlikely that even the most devout person is going to find time to read them. So, just now, I send out 1 or 2 page sections of the Divine Principle, Tribal Messiah book and Father's life. Then, I send out one section of the World Scripture, in an endless loop. However, I feel very good about the lengthy answers I give to people's questions and feel that they are well received. Please save such answers for a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) section at a later date. People like very much that section on my web page. If anything, the posts on the Usenet newsgroups have attracted the most attention. However, it could be that many people found my home page just by doing a search on the web. It is hard to know how people found the material. It cannot hurt, however, to have your name be known as a personality on Usenet, a "net personality". What I do then is when people ask questions on the material I post, as I find time, I answer people's questions. That is why I would not post in a language I cannot speak, as I want to be able to field questions from the readers. So, you can post Father's words in Russian, on a Russian language newsgroup, and then take the flack and criticism, and the praise, whatever comes your way. Take note that Jean-Philippe Odent is in serious trouble with the university where he works as a result of his posts on behalf of the Unification Church. There is a serious anti-Unification crusade going on there. If you find that the heat gets too high, post and answer with an anonymous remailer such as anon.penet.fi based in Finland. You can get information on it by sending a request to info@anon.penet.fi. I did not fear for losing my account, though in the beginning, my persecutors gave me a lot of trouble, and bombarded by Internet Service Provider with hate mail. If you get a lot of hate mail, learn to use a mail filter to bounce it back to the sender. That deterred a lot of that kind of mail in the first few months. If anyone else want to take up the cause of promoting Unificationist teachings on the net, be my guest. I notice that Rachel Carter and Paula Lucier are pretty active on alt.religion.christian and alt.religion.unification. Thank you. Keep up the good work. ITPN, Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:58:46 -0400 Subject: Questions of Faith On Tue, 3 Sep 1996, BL wrote: > I am curious about a few things. Not interested in joining though, ok? OK. > Am happy as I am... :) When you first joined the church, what attracted > you? The first thing that attracted me to the Unification Church was the clarity and depth of Rev. Moon's teachings and how they explained many things that I had long wondered about in the Bible and in life. > Did you feel something deep inside telling you that this religion > was true? Different from the rest? Can you explain it? Please be as > detailed as you can. Talk about emotions, etc. Well, at the time, I did not have much experience with other religions other that the Catholic faith in which I was raised. I had been an agnostic for 6 years and had recently come back to a belief in God when I met the Unification Church. Although I came back to believing in God, as a young man studying theoretical physics at university, I could not easily accept the non-scientific or absurdly anti-scientific explanations of religion in which I had been raised. The Unification faith appealed to the rational in me as well as to the spiritual yearning. I felt that God was calling me and that I did not want to pass up the opportunity. My experience with God was that He valued me and needed me. Once I realized how much God had struggled to save humanity for so long, I felt that those who understood this had a moral duty to do something about it. It was not so much an emotional decision as a visceral decision, that my whole being pointed me in this direction and my conscience told me that this was the way to go. > I have a friend who is in LDS and is really being psychologically > abused, I guess you could say. I don't have that experience of the LDS church. I have met many LDS missionaries and talked with them at length and find them to be very pleasant earnest religion people. They are usually young people, in their early twenties. > I want her to see that others in other religions feel just as strongly > about their religion as the church tells the LDSers they should. Right > now, she feels that all other religions are false and that only LDSers > feel as they do. Your help will be greatly appreciated, and don't worry, > I'll keep it anonymous if you wish. Thank you in advance!!! You're welcome. I feel very stongly about my religious calling, but I would not want to discourage someone in the LDS church from living by their faith. Their standards are infinitely better than those of the evil secular environment. > BL Sincerely, Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Sep 12, 1996 01:36 Subject: Re: What is the Messiah? Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology References: <321F5C65.26BC@scott.net> <3221d95c.1192641@news.snafu.de> <32228ED8.1A0@ix.netcom.com> <32248cee.3732977@news.snafu.de> <3224DB9D.39E8@unitel.co.kr> <503ftq$dg0@unlisys.unlisys.net> <50pafd$3pb@ari.ari.net> <32318DA2.6D50@worldnet.att.net> <512ct6$7dh@news2.cais.com> <3235E6F9.4B5B@worldnet.att.net> On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:08:57 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > The burden of proof does not fall to me in that I am not the one claiming > to be the Messiah. Moon is not the Messiah by any definition. Well, if the Messiah is just a man who can walk on two legs, he meets that criterion. So, it does matter what your criterion is. Since there is no commonly accepted idea of what the Messiah is, I would like to know what you mean by the statement "Rev. Moon is not the Messiah", other than to hurl invective. > Let's not confuse the issue here. What Sebold did was call Tilman > a Nazi without basis of fact. I call Convicted Felon Sun Myung Moon > a criminal because that is what he is. I do not defend Mike Sebold's behavior in any way, In fact, I want to distance myself from it. He does not represent me or my faith. > He was convicted in a court of law. He is also delusional because > the poor man thinks he is the Messiah. Well, he was convicted in a court of law, but what does that prove? Martin Luther King and many other great men were jailed and convicted. So was Andrei Sakharov. So what? Look who did the convicting! They convicted him to shut him up and get him out of the country, but they failed. Rev. Moon was offered his freedom if he would just shut up and leave the country and never come back. He refused the offer. > The only reason you think he is the Messiah is because he > has told you he is the Messiah. Actually, this is not true. Rev. Moon did not tell me he was the Messiah, nor did any of his representatives. I came to that conclusion based on what he taught about God, and sin and salvation, not what he taught about himself. I first studied the Divine Principle in Paris in 1977 and in those days, UC members did not tell people that Rev. Moon was the Messiah. I tend to say it openly now as Rev. Moon has publicly proclaimed it. > If he had never said a word about being the Messiah how many church > members do you think would be calling him the Messiah? Not many I bet. Most who joined were not taught that Rev. Moon was the Messiah. Sorry, but you're wrong on that one. > You should also remember that Moon's value to God is not judged by > the labels you put on him either. Correct. > By the way I don't have a cause to harm. Really? :-) > D.Smith > dsmith1@worldnet.att.net Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Sep 13, 1996 21:25 Subject: Privacy on the Internet References: <50vsep$6e3@ari.ari.net> <51189g$opg@news2.cais.com> <51232t$5u8@ari.ari.net> On 9 Sep 1996 21:43:57 GMT Michael Sebold (msebold@ari.net) wrote: > Damian J. Anderson (damian@cais2.cais.com) wrote: > : Whatever you reveal on the net is public information. Whatever > : other people reveal about you becomes public information too, like > : it or not. In the long run, the truth will set us all free, so the > : Internet makes it possible for us to reveal the truth, warts and > : all. > Gee Damian: > I'm afraid that I cannot agree with your position, either legally or > morally. Morally, I think it is incredibly arrogant of you to claim that > other members of the UC have no right to privacy merely because they chose > to relate personal to limited groups of individuals on the internet. Well, Mike, I did not claim that UC members do not have a right to privacy. Posting on Usenet, you must understand, is like yelling into a bullhorn in a crowded public place. It is not my wish or yours, but the action itself that makes what they say public information. > This is not to say that you are not a fine fellow in other respects. > But suppose you were referring to Jews in the days of WWII. Suppose > you were referring to those persons abused and destroyed in the > days of Joe McCarthy. If they want to come and get you, they will. I happen not to be paranoid. If you don't want to draw attention to yourself, don't speak in public. > Many of those persons were rounded up and destroyed by the use > of certain affiliation lists maintained by the government or by enemy > groups. I can't believe that you would try to console these persons with, > "Sorry, they had a right to maintain the lists. Even though you were > killed or had your life destroyed, dont worry; the truth will eventually > set you free." Whatever, if it is a crime in the USA, it does not mean that it is a crime elsewhere. The Internet has no national boundaries. I am proud to be associated with Rev. and Mrs. Moon and the Unification Church, and my name is listed in many Internet guides as the author of the Unification Home Page. If someone decides to have a pogrom against Unificationists, I will be among the first to go. > I know of at least two UC members who have complained of their > names being on Tilman's name list. Just because you are fond of > being so open with your name on the internet you do not have the > moral right to tell these persons that they must consent to their > private lives being displayed on Tilman's affiliation lists. Those persons made their names public, mostly on alt.religion.unification, just as you have. > This brings us to the next point, the legality of Tilman's list. > Tilman claims the right to maintain an affiliatin list in the > context of his Moonie-bashing. He claims that the information > was all disclosed publically, so no harm. I do not condone persecution against members of the Unification Church, but I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Legality in the USA does not matter one iota if he is in Germany. > It is questionable to me whether a person in this case would lose a cause > of action for invasion of privacy (of a variety known as false light) just > because he has disclosed certain personal information in a chat group on > the internet. In a false light case, the key matters generally are > whether the defendant has publicized information about the plaintiff that > would put him in a false light publically, such that would be highly > offensive to a reasonable person. The argument here to my mind would be > whether Tilman portrays a Korean newspaper employee in a "highly > offensive" "false light" when he published to the world a McCarthy-type > affiliation list connecting the employee to a "FAQ" affiliation list in > the context of bashing the employee's religion. Ho-hum. > The Supreme Court has stated that the public figure exception > does apply to certain privacy-related torts. (A public figure > cannot collect in such a case unless he shows the tortfeaser has > acted with "actual malice", a stiff hurdle to overcome.) I'm sorry, I am not a lawyer, and I would not know a tortfeaser if I found one in my soup. And what the US Supreme Court says is irrelevant. The issue goes beyond national boundaries. > However, I don't know that this has been specifically applied yet > to false light cases, and more strongly, I don't know that the > newspaper employee has really made himself a "public figure" for > all purposes be simply relating certain personal information to a > limited number of acquaintances on a small newsgroup like OWC. Now you are the first to mention OWC on here. I do not belong to that group of people, and it is not a newsgroup, it is a mailing list. If you send e-mail to a friend, then you can expect that to remain confidential, even a group of friends, but when you make it available to the world through Usenet, all expectations of privacy are vain. Anyone with the knowhow can look up a history of EVERY POST that you have EVER MADE to Usenet and read it. Go check out Deja News. They will soon have their archives dating back to the 1970s. Yes, Usenet has been around even longer than the Internet. I worked on Usenet back in 1985 when the traffic was delivered by UUCP. Look up http://www.dejanews.com and do a search for Mike Sebold. > I cant agree with your assessment of Tilman, or your views on > what will benefit the UC, so I am afraid that I cannot honor your > request. I note that many UC members have expressed concern at > your "spamming" campaign on the internet. I don't care a fig for what those people think. They are a bunch of whiners, misanthropes and misfits. > I have personally thought that, while you may be a little overagressive > for my tastes (repeated postings to alt.religion.athiest?), you > have taken your lumps and kept it up. I relish a fight. Rev. Moon told us to go out and make good trouble. That is my speciality, making trouble. And if the Unification Church as it has stood for Rev. Moon's last 25 years in America has not gained membership by its former methods, then I intend to spread the Unification faith worldwide, whether or not the paranoid, wimpy has-beens in the Unification Church approve or not. > While I have questioned your wisdom, I have kind of admired your > determination. I am rather astonished that you, of all persons, > choose to attack me for being agressive in this instance. I have not attacked you personally, I merely state that you don't have a case for complaint, if you made yourself a public figure by your own statements in public. Sincerely and emphatically, Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Sep 13, 1996 20:33 Subject: What is the Messiah? Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology References: <32318DA2.6D50@worldnet.att.net> <510leu$e50@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3235E84D.1E15@worldnet.att.net> On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:14:37 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > EdPoor wrote: > > > > Well, whether Rev. Moon is the Messiah depends on (a) what the Messiah > > should teach and (b) what the Messiah should do. I'd like to start another > > thread to discuss just this point. > > Ed I like this kind of thread. > Let me start by saying I think the Messiah should stop calling himself the > Messiah. If he truely is the Messiah then this designation will come to > him naturally. All of us will come to see him as such on our own. I also think > the Messiah should not make guns. Jesus did not start out by calling himself the Messiah, but ended up making claims that he was the "Light of the World", the "Resurrection and the Life", the "Way, the Truth and the Life", the "Son of Man", the "Good Shepherd", and so on. Now, Rev. Moon has expressed himself in different terminology. Now either he is the Messiah, or he ain't. Either way, you don't have any business telling him how to do his job. If he is not the Messiah, then what does it matter how he does the job? If he is, you are risking a lightning bolt as you oppose the living God. Jesus asked of us that we take up our cross and follow him. Rev. Moon has done that admirably, and has taught the message that God revealed to him since 1945. He has been involved in a huge number of humanitarian works, but has received scarce credit for it, since the media have demonized him. And as for guns, I don't think they are inherently good or evil. Just like computers, or nuclear weapons, or anything else, they can be used for good or evil. > You're turn. Y-o-u-r t-u-r-n. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
3104 Sep 14, 1996 14:34 From: Paula Lucier Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification Subject: Re Messiah Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 08:34:38 -0500 Xref: news2.cais.com talk.religion.misc:254541 alt.religion.unification:4397 >Subject: > MESSIAH > Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:35:32 -0500 > From: > Oliver Zarate >Organization: > Texas Instruments >Newsgroups: > talk.religion.misc >I thought this topic to be interesting. According to the dictionary, >the non-biblical definition of messiah is one who is the liberator >or deliverer. The biblical term is defined as the anticipated deliver >and king of the Jews. Now realizing that Christianity broke of >from the Jewish faith, we must do away with the notion that the >Messiah, >if there is one at this time, must be Jewish. So from an unbiased per- >spective and with no knowledge of Rev. Moon one can say, yes he could >be the Messiah. However the statement also hold true for me to say that >any other person is also the Messiah. Once you start to do a research >on Rev. Moon however and people who have formally been with his >organization, you might begin to question not only his messiahship, >but also his validity as a teacher of the faith. Based on what? What have you come across in your "research" that leads you to question either Rev. Moon or the Unification Church? Better still please ask your questions. > Although I don't >agree with everything that The Christian Research Institute puts out >I think that they would be a good and certainly crediable resource on >learning more on the Unification Church. Wouldn't it seem that the Unification Church itself would be a more "credible" source for finding information about the church than an organization whose sole function is to judge and discredit people it doesn't agree with? Or perhaps talking to someone who is a member of the church? >Also try to find some quotes >from speeches he gave during the 70's. I think no matter one's faith is >there should be an endless search for truth. And yes, it is okay to >question. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I have to agree with you there, questions inevitably lead to more questions and to a search of truth, which is a good thing. It means people have not closed off their minds and hearts to the possibility that God may be doing something they don't expect. > I will admmit, I do not >know enough about the Unification Church to disprove it's validity, >but I do know enough to question it. At the same time I might be wrong. >I seek only to get people to think for themselves and not have religion >spoon fed to them. >See ya >Odog Again, you seem to be asking some questions with a somewhat open mind, which I commend you for. However, I would suggest a different "excellent site for more info" : http://www.unification.net I would also suggest dialoque with some church members in the unification newsgroup or email. I would be happy to talk with you as well.Paula
Sep 14, 1996 14:47 Subject: Speakers at Unification sponsored events Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology References: <32372c1d.18988835@news.snafu.de> <323AAF9D.1EC9@epix.net> <323ADB8A.32DB@worldnet.att.net> Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Distribution: On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:21:30 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > Wow, you do lead a sheltered life. Ford, Kemp and Bush are three examples > of mouths for hire. I bet they wouldn't have been there if they had to > do it for free. Perhaps, you did not know Dennis, that George Bush has donated his speaking honorarium to charity from at least one of his speaking engagements at UC-related events. That could hardly be motivated by money. Perhaps you have led a life so immersed in skepticism, so that you cannot see the good in another soul. That is very sad. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Sep 14, 1996 15:01 Subject: Re: What is the Messiah? Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology References: <32318DA2.6D50@worldnet.att.net> <510leu$e50@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3235E84D.1E15@worldnet.att.net> <51cujq$ipc@news2.cais.com> <323AD3E6.7B25@worldnet.att.net> On Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:48:54 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > Damian J. Anderson wrote: > > Jesus did not start out by calling himself the Messiah, but ended > > up making claims that he was the "Light of the World", the > > "Resurrection and the Life", the "Way, the Truth and the Life", > > the "Son of Man", the "Good Shepherd", and so on. Now, Rev. Moon > > has expressed himself in different terminology. Now either he is > > the Messiah, or he ain't. Either way, you don't have any business > > telling him how to do his job. If he is not the Messiah, then what > > does it matter how he does the job? If he is, you are risking a > > lightning bolt as you oppose the living God. > I'm not to worried about lightning bolts hitting me. Moon is a > fraud. He doesn't come close to being a Messiah. Of course, I was talking about lightning metaphorically. But you still have not given me a rational basis for your argument or your criteria for discerning true from false messiahs. > > Jesus asked of us that we take up our cross and follow him. Rev. > > Moon has done that admirably, and has taught the message that God > > revealed to him since 1945. He has been involved in a huge number > > of humanitarian works, but has received scarce credit for it, since > > the media have demonized him. > > > > And as for guns, I don't think they are inherently good or evil. > > Just like computers, or nuclear weapons, or anything else, they can > > be used for good or evil. > A man of peace should not make guns. A man of peace is well advised to walk softly and carry a big stick, though of course, Theodore Roosevelt, who coined the phrase, was accused of being a warmonger. Because of a great superiority in nuclear weapons, the USA never had to fight the USSR directly. That was a wise policy, and one which Rev. Moon supported. In fact, through the Washington Times, he consistently advised Pres. Reagan to build up the US defenses and even SDI, so that finally the evil empire collapsed. Peace through strength is wise. Those who remain weak and relying upon the goodwill of others are fools in the evil world we live in. Peace is to be found in the hearts of men and women, and not until there can be mutual trust and respect in a relationship of familial love can we lower our guard against evil tyrants. So, a man of peace is well advised to be strongly defended. Then he never needs to fight a war. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Sep 15, 1996 00:14 Subject: Re: What is the Messiah? Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology References: <51cb7u$t4d@krypto.zippo.com> Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Distribution: On Fri, 13 Sep 1996 21:59:58 GMT piedtech (piedtech@intrlink.com) wrote: > We are warned about false prophets and false Messiahs in great detail > by the very book that the unification church says it supports . Now if > you support and believe this book how can you interpet it diffrently ? > I would venture a guess that you have not read it cover to cover > before or during your belonging to the group . > If you have then we can have a scriptual discussion about false > messiahs . > jim I have read the Bible from cover to cover at least 3 times, and have studied some parts in much greater detail. And you know, it says that we will know them by their fruits. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Sep 15, 1996 00:37 Subject: Those who leave the Unification Church Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology References: <1279.6817T1371T451@shell.portal.com> <51fl0m$284@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: Unification Church On 14 Sep 1996 21:09:42 -0400 BILTHECHEF (bilthechef@aol.com) wrote: > What do they do to you if a person trys to leave the moonie religion? In most cases, nothing. Many of those who leave do so over time by drifting away, so that it is often not even noticed, except by their closest friends. Then, what happens depends on their friends. My approach to those who have left on amicable terms is to treat them as friends. Those who have left on belligerent terms, I usually let them cool off, and then treat them as friends, when the opportunity arises. I have had the opportunity to speak to several backslidden members of the Unification Church. They often have some kind of resentment to one person or another, and because of that one person, leave the faith. The solution is usually to help them mend relationships with people if at all possible, and to encourage them back to a diligent life of prayer and observance of tradition. When people lose discipline in their personal life, it is very common for them to become cloudy spiritually, rather than clear, then God becomes a concept, and carnal desire becomes insuperable. Then follows the dark night of the soul. It is not unique to Unificationist spiritual experience, but has been documented through centuries of the human search for God, the ultimate source of the Universe, and the quest to unite with Him. Even then, many of those who leave come back at some later date. Many of them have contacted me by e-mail as a result of my presence on Usenet and the Web. I am usually able to put them in touch with church members near where they live, whichever part of the world they happen to be in. ITPN, Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Sep 15, 1996 23:58 Subject: Mind control or seduction? Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian, alt.christnet.theology References: <323ADC41.209D@worldnet.att.net> <51eush$cr@news2.cais.com> <323BA310.3162@worldnet.att.net> On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:32:48 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > Damian: > I think you mean deprogrammer. Have you ever met an exit counselor? > Have you ever witnessed an exit counseling? No, I have not, and I don't need to. Unless you were to include the group of friends who greeted me when I came home after my first contact with the Unification Church and proceeded to stay uninvited at my home for days to harangue me about my new-found faith. They had the tacit approval of my parents but I did not want them there. I guess that comes close. It is based on a lie and the arrogance that one person can decide for another to renounce their chosen path of faith. I guess it is the Devil's evangelism. Needless to say, I was as stubborn and determined then as I am now, and did not bow to their pressure. > Do you believe there is such a thing as mind control > or coercive persuasion? I don't believe that it is possible to control someone's mind against their will, but that it is possible to seduce people into believing in an idea that can be harmful to them. A prime example of that in my view is MTV. In that case, people with flaccid minds take the path of least resistance, and follow the mob of lemmings rushing to their doom. Those who follow a life of faith on the other hand require immense internal fortitude to resist the carnal hedonistic secular pressures of the Godless world around them. So it was with Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and all the heroes of faith. They had to swim against the tide of their society. Only dead fish go with the flow. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Sep 16, 1996 00:16 Subject: Re: Speakers at Unification sponsored events Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet.theology References: <32372c1d.18988835@news.snafu.de> <323AAF9D.1EC9@epix.net> <323ADB8A.32DB@worldnet.att.net> <51eulh$cr@news2.cais.com> <323BA11A.16BD@worldnet.att.net> Organization: Unification Church Distribution: On Sun, 15 Sep 1996 02:24:26 -0400 Dennis Smith (dsmith1@worldnet.att.net) wrote: > I did hear something about him giving some money to charity. Why didn't he > give it all to charity if he was dedicated to the cause? BTW Bush's nephew > who is a member of the church, what is his name? He did not start out being a believer. He originally spoke at our event because a friend asked him to. The friend was Wes Pruden, the head man at the Washington Times. After coming to speak at just one Women's Federation for World Peace event, he was so moved by it that he decided to bring his wife, so that they have both come to believe in the cause that we promote. I don't know his nephew's name. This week, Brian Mulrooney of Canada and Maureen Reagan have been accompanying Mrs. Moon on a speaking tour of Japan. I was with Rev. and Mrs. Moon for 10 days in Alaska, starting August 25. They are in fine form. Unification Theological Seminary graduates had a 7 day retreat and then 3 days of fishing. I went ocean fishing with Rev. Moon, though not on his boat. The biggest fish we caught was a 180 lb halibut. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web pages on Unificationist ideas and activities in 15 languages and growing. See articles on alt.religion.unification. Subscribe to mailing lists: Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com Send "subscribe unif-evangelism your name" to listserv@listserv.aol.com
Sep 16, 1996 00:24 art15 This is a rather eloquent defense of Unificationism on the net from an unknown person. I don't even know if he is a UC member! :-) From: hrobin153@aol.com (HRobin153) Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification Subject: re: please prove...doing it on the superhiway Date: 15 Sep 1996 23:27:02 -0400 >>please prove that Mr. Moon is the messiah >>Ok folks Since you imply that this is somthing that you >>can handle then let's do it here and now >>jim 1. i like all three, but use the new international; 2. & 3. i love a challenge--if this doesn't count then i'll go back and dig up the appropriate bible quotes. there are many bible quotes that support my belief that moon is messiah, but none state: "when christ returns his name will be moon.' they just indicate that when christ returns he won't be recognized by many of those who have been waiting for him, but he will do what God has wanted --see israel's response to jesus' interpretation of the old testament. a very similar situation will take place at the 'second coming'; those who have been waiting for him won't recognize him because he won't be or do what is expected. folks didn't recognize elijha when he returned as john the baptist--and since everybody knew j/b was to return before christ they concluded that jesus was not the one and they needed to wait for another. unfortunately although they had eyes they couldnot see the way God was working in society. now-a-days everybody is looking for christ to return, but most expect somekind of bizarre event that will clearly indicate the time, place, and christ when he returns. although i don't believe in reincarnation, i do believe in sucession of missions toward the goal of fulfilling the will of God. (adam was supposed to fulfill the 3blessings--grow up, have a family, start a business--but he didn't grow up before he started his family and started a business. jesus grew up, but didn't get the chance to have a family or start a business--but he did do more than adam to loosen satan's grip on the world. and because he punched a hole in satan's domain through which truth seekers could transcend the evils of the world, a base was laid upon which God's ideal could continue to expand.) the base expanded through time until the opportunity arose for christ to return. what was left to complete (and this is where moon comes in), well, the 3blessings had to be completed. someone had to become one with God's historical desire for mankind to be the lords of creation; the person had to truly believe that he was/is a child of God and grow to true maturity; because of the ancient spiritual debts the man had to find a woman who could be raised/trained as a true child of God, then marry her and have children who could be raised to be true children of God, and of course he would have to have the cash-flow to support his family. because a simple plan went unfulfilled for so long, the returning christ has a few other things to do. had adam and eve done the right thing everyone on earth would be a part of the true family of God due to the natural expansion of the population (this sort of side steps the idea that a&e may not have been the only people on earth at "that time", but cut me a little slack); had the mother of jesus found a bride for him, he could have had a flesh and blood family-- he would have also adopted the 12tribes and raised them as his children--passing on what he knew about the heart of God. and then the true and the adopted children would have headed for the big city (rome) and through the spread of good ideas the romans would have been adopted. since they were a global power they would have spread the true family of God all over the known world--quickly ushering in heaven on earth. but jesus was assasinated by those who didn't believe in life after the death of the physical body. as jesus's spiritual family (christians) developed and spread, God worked behind the scene to create a national home for jesus's spiritual family (america). once america was in place the real work of sending the christ could begin. i don't know why korea was chosen (no pun intended), except for the suffering they went throughout their 5000 years of history--apparently they were invaded numerous times but could never get it together enough to invade someone else. there's also the rumor that koreans are one of the 10 lost tribes of israel, etc, etc; (i would examine these claims more closely if there were someone from another country that might be the messiah...) anyway it makes sense that the returned christ would have a hard way to go--who would believe him, and since jesus suffered a lot, it makes sense that the returned christ would have to suffer as much as jesus did, but remain alive and determined to fulfill the 3blessings. on top of that he would have to adopt not just the 12tribes, but all mankind in preparation for restoring the cosmos back to God. ok, ok--most of these ideas came from the moon movement itself, but the more i researched and thought about the meaning and purpose of history, the rise and fall of cults and cultures, myths and mythologies, and human nature, i came to the realization that moon could be the messiah if he did a couple of things: 1. if he could represent God's ideal of humanity (be an ideal man) and be recognized as an ideal man by beings all over the cosmos; and 2. teach everyone on earth how to do the same thing; i'm still learning--practise makes perfect. if he can do those two things then he will have fulfilled God's plan for mankind, opened the cosmos for human exploration and administration, and laid the base for the eternal cosmic family of God--which will eventually unite the cosmos and make earth its administrative center, not because of military might but because earth is where all the love is coming from. because of these biblical and historical principles i've concluded that smm is the messiah. now whether you believe he's the messiah is up to you. hamm huh? what was that?