Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 58

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:33:45 -0400 From: Damian J. Anderson <> Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,, alt.religion.christian Subject: Re: The fiction of brainwashing Anton Hein wrote: >>> You make the common error of claiming that those who believe mind >>> control exists are "anti-religious." The vast majority of people >>> who ascribe to mind control theories are not anti-religious.  >>> Rather, they object to the unethical use of persuasion tactics, >>> such as used in cultic movements. >> I dispute that. I think YOU are anti-religious, because you are >> only willing to tolerate and respect people who are like you, >> and attack the faith of others who disagree with you. > If you consider me anti-religious, you have just exposed > yourself as a bald-faced liar. You are opposing a variety of religion which transforms people's lives for the better. That makes you anti-religious, at the same time as you maintain your pharasaical nitpicking of who is and is not kosher in your eyes. I am content to live and let live with regard to religion, and to allow people to pursue their conscience in search of the True God. I think that by opposing the Unification Church and other similar groups, you go against the advice of Gamaliel in Acts 5:34-39 34 But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35 Then he addressed them: "Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36 Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God." I am warning you. You are at war with God, and on the day of judgment, you will be held accountable for persecuting the Lord of Glory. You can call me all the names you want. That will not change the truth. > > I am willing to talk about my faith, but when you bring in this > > secular nonsense about mind control, then you cloud the issues with > > psychobabble. I find the whole thing laughable. Christian ministers > > who fear losing their congregations to brainwashers have already > > lost them by their own insipidity. > Yawn. Talk like that is most helpful to those who believe mind > control - in one measure or another - exists. Keep it up, and > you'll become exhibit A. > However, I fully understand why you'd like to classify your > delusions as mere religious experience. I see. Very good. Case closed. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The very best you can do to account for other people's spiritual life and experience is for you to dismiss it as delusional. -- Damian Anderson
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:23:38 -0400 From: Damian J. Anderson <> Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian, alt.religion.unification, Subject: Re: Who is a Christian? Anton Hein wrote: > > And Jesus said this: > > > > Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful > > for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?" "Haven't > > you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator `made > > them male and female,' and said, `For this reason a man will > > leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the > > two will become one flesh'  So they are no longer two, but one. > > Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." "Why > > then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a > > certificate of divorce and send her away?" Jesus replied, "Moses > > permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were > > hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that > > anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, > > and marries another woman commits adultery." (Matthew 19:3-9) > > > Is marrying six times in accordance with this teaching? > Nope. But nowhere does it say that a person who has been married > X number of times is disqualified from determining whether or not > someone is a Christian. That determination is based on doctrine. That is very interesting. And yet I distinctly remember Jesus saying that on the day of judgement, he will separate the sheep and the goats based on their BEHAVIOR (Matt 25:31-46): 31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40 "The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' 41 "Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44 "They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45 "He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." So salvation does not have to do with belief and beliefs and doctrine alone, but your behavior and your heart. In fact, he said that there would be people who would say to him that they believed in him, and he will tell them to go away because they were evil doers (Matt 7:16-23) 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' Even sufficient faith to do miracles will not be enough, because if you oppose the Lord when he returns, you will have missed the entire point of the whole bitter and bloody history of Christianity, to prepare a straight way for the Lord to come when he returns. The apostle John says this: 9 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. 10 Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him [5] to make him stumble. 11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him. (1 John 2:9-11) Anton, if you fail to love me and everyone else as a brother or sister, you are still living in the darkness. 13 Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. 16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. (1 John 3:13-16) You will not win me or anyone else by ridiculing their heartfelt and sincere faith. That may have worked in the days of witch burning in the old world, or in Puritan Massachusetts, but it does not work today. > You are not for Jesus.  You represent a false teacher whose claims > contradict the Word of God.  That makes him a false teacher.  Whatever he > does in the name of Jesus is counterfeit.  It is as invalid as forging > a check.  You and the cult leader you worship are anti-Christs who make > God out to be a liar.  If you think that is akin to being "for Jesus," > you are deluded. This is really risible, Anton,. You have run out of insults, and so you have nothing more to say. I quote the scriptures to illustrate my points. This is the authority that you accept. In return, you hurl insults. Nice work. Jesus had something to say about people like that: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.  Matt 23:13 He also said this about anger and hurling insults: 21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, `Do not murder, [1] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother [2] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, `Raca, [3]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, `You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell. 23 "Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift. 25 "Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny. So remember, and this applies to Craig too, you are responsible for your anger and all the insults you hurl. Stay away from that kind of evil talk. >> I believe in Jesus Christ and attempt to the very best of my ability >> to live according to his teachings. I don't think it is your place, >> or that of a woman with six husbands to tell me otherwise. I trust >> that God is my judge, not someone who makes a habit of belittling >> and ridiculing the faith of others. Jesus had a name for such >> people. He called them blind guides and hypocrites. I guess that >> at the time of the second coming of Christ, there will also be >> the second coming of the blind guides and hypocrites. > Demons also believe in Jesus Christ. Doesn't help them. Remember that. Doctrine and belief is insufficient. I agree with you on this point. > You are living according to the heretical teachings of Mr. Moon - > a false Messiah who is an anti-Christ. Thus you are not doing > your best to live according to the teachings of Jesus. On this point, you know nothing about my life, and yet you judge me. > Yes, God is your judge, but the Bible clearly shows that Christians > are to expose and counter false teachers: > Censoriousness is composed of self-conceit and severity; a self-conceit that we are superior to others, and are entitled to some sort of lordship over them; and then a severity of judging others by the outward letter of righteousness instead of by the Spirit. There you have it, from your own web site. -- Damian Anderson
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:52:56 -0400 From: Damian J. Anderson <> Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, alt.religion.christian, Subject: Re: The Truth About Jacob and Esau and Rev. Moon Bill Taylor wrote: > Damian J. Anderson wrote: > > > Craig, you make some good points about the Bible, and clearly you have read > > it carefully, if you did in fact write this. However, there is no need to > > denigrate someone else, Rev. Moon in this case, in the same breath as > > sharing your own faith. Just share your faith, sincerely and simply and let > > that speak for itself. The barbs do you no credit. > > > And for your information, the term "heavenly deception" is used by > > Unification Church critics, and not by members of the church. It is not > > something we teach, it is something others accuse us of teaching. > > It is encouraging that you see Craig's remarks as barbs. No, I did not see the whole thing as barbs at all. On the whole, it was a sincere and well researched piece. My point about the barbs is that he could have left the little digs out of it and it would have stood just fine without them. While he had some valid points, I did not agree with them all. > He goes to great lengths to document what he says according to the Bible, DP, > and SMM's > speeches--far, far more than any member does here. Do you have access to > these written works; are you able to comment knowledgably using them? If > you find that SMM's actual words and traditions are offensive, why do all > of this clever stuff to apologize for them? I don't find Rev. Moon's words offensive. And you also have access to Rev. Moon's words through the various web sites online which host them. > The term "heavenly deception" used to be used officially. As a practice, > it continued after the term was banned. It is kind of like the M word. All I can comment on is what I have heard Rev. Moon teach. Please find me a reference in any of Rev. Moon's words to "heavenly deception". > And I am curious, what is the point of questioning if Craig really wrote > this? Why do you criticise Craig, myself, and others if you are truly > unsure who is writing? Who do you think you are writing to, a child > audience? If so, I think it is as bad as advertizing Camels to children. > Are you retrogressing to an age where you pretended you were a James > Bond-type agent? I realize it was Craig who was writing, but it did sound like he was lifting pasages that he had read elsewhere. No matter. -- Damian Anderson
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:17:44 -0400 From: Damian J. Anderson <> Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification Subject: Re: to Thik Bill Taylor wrote: > You mentioned that I seem like an irritant to you, like a mosquito. Let's > complete that. Be straight with me. What bugs you about what I write > here? Let's get beyond name calling and "I'm right; you're wrong". > > The fact that you have endured a number of years in the movement > demonstrates that you have a certain committment and constitution that can > make a powerful difference in the world. What would be a breakthrough for > you? You are already a successful person, so, where is an area of your > life that you would like to light up? What are you resisting or putting > up with in life? Let's work together and get you on fire. I notice the Lifespring / EST / Forum / human potential movement jargon here. He is a doctor in residency, I believe. > What I get from you is that you are committed to supporting SMM as the > messiah for the world. You are also frustrated by the limits of your > ability to express what you stand for. I also know that you are reluctant > to self-disclose but you could have a breakthrough in that as well. > > I would also welcome your contribution as well. I just got a new position > which is very comfortable but with moderate pay. I am interested in > starting a community, similar to a commune that I lived on in Australia, > while making a good income. My wife quit her job yesterday and is > interested in pursuing herbal healing. I would like to see these things > in place by the end of the year. I would welcome suggestions as to how > using the DP could assist me in having my dreams. You may be interested in what the University of Bridgeport is offering in terms of bringing together the best of oriental and western medicine. You can look on their web site for details: --- Damian Anderson
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:26:23 -0400 From: Damian J. Anderson <> Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, Subject: Rev. Moon and persecution Bill Taylor wrote: > SMM definitely condoned deception in the past. Listen, you KNOW this. > Who are you pretending that your audience is? How many times do you have > to repeat a lie in order to make it true according to UC tradition? You may think that because church leaders did this, that Rev. Moon condoned it. He repeatedly told people to stand up for their faith and not to duck out of persecution by denying their allegiance. Father talks about persecution in the Home Church book: -- Damian Anderson