Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 14



Subject: Re: World Scripture - Love Your Enemy Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam References: <47l7at$31n@thetimes.pixel.kodak.com> <1744E94FAS86.RJEWETT@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service Distribution: Randy Jewett (RJEWETT@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu) wrote: : In article <47l7at$31n@thetimes.pixel.kodak.com> : trick@marmot.PCD1 (Patrick Walsh) writes: : > : >If you are a member of the Unification Church, I ask that you : >obtain a simple, : >easy to follow instruction given by the Buddha himself. This : >instruction lists : >the qualities that you should look for in a teacher. They include : >generosity, : > : >+--- : woops, too much snip : patience, virtue, discipline, compassion and wisdom. : and examine your teacher. : : Apparently some of them did and the teach came up short. While I do not dispute the figures, I do dispute the conclusions. If you were to look at how many people tried to become pro football stars, would you say that those who washed out did so because of poor teachers or for other reasons? The goals that we are attempting to achieve in the Unification Church are difficult, and the culture we live in does not support them, so it is a fight. It will not always be so hard. Many people who are no longer involved with the movement still believe in its ideals, but found them difficult to put into practice. How many fully enlightened Buddhas do you see walking around? This is comparable to the goal of the Unificationist life of faith. : here's a list of those still moonies after 4 years. From the book : _The Making of a Moonie: brainwashing or choice? (Oxford: Basil : Blackwell, 1984 : p. 146 % : 2-day workshop: start 100 : 2-day workshop: finish 85 : 7-day " start 30 : 7-day " finish 25 : 21-day worksop: start 18 : " finish 15 : Agree to affiliate to UC 13 : Actually join for more : than one week 10 : Still affiliated after 1 yr 7 : " 2 yrs 5 : Max % still affil. after 4 yrs 3.5 : : These started in 1979 and were follwed til Jan 1984 If anything, what these figures indicate is that at any stage in their life in the church, people can opt out of their own free will and do not need any forcible deprogramming or propagandistic exit-counseling to persuade them to leave. They are free and able to leave by themselves. Indeed, Rev. Moon has told people that if they don't want to be there, then PLEASE LEAVE. There is nothing worse than a complainer who does not want to be there. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
From: songhak@cet.co.jp (Andrew F. Lausberg) Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult Subject: Re: Why not just say "Moonie" (was Attack of the 50 foot...) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 1995 00:08:09 +0900 Organization: Par Seminars Lines: 66 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <45rvg0$e0u@linet02.li.net> <45sf5g$is2@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <45su8g$k55@linet02.li.net> <4605pp$gb9@linet02.li.net> <474f7s$old@zippy.cais.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: a01m.cet.co.jp Xref: zippy.cais.net alt.religion.unification:921 talk.religion.misc:187864 alt.religion.christian:64062 alt.support.ex-cult:4138 In article <474f7s$old@zippy.cais.net>, damian@cais2.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) wrote: >>Merchant of Chaos (peegee@newshost.li.net) wrote: >>: Eric B. Richardson (richa011@maroon.tc.umn.edu) wrote: >> >>: : Would you like to show a court case that it was decided that >>: : the UC used mind control? >> >>: The problem here is, quite simply, mind control is NOT against the law. It >>: is not illegal, in the United States of America, to brainwash somebody, >>: therefore, no court would have a reason to rule that the UC used >>: mind control. >> >>This whole issue of mind control is such baloney. If you are talking >>about influencing people's minds, then the biggest and most damaging >>influences on people's minds in America are Hollywood and Madison Avenue. Yes, Damian. I have to agree with you. The whole issue of "mind control" is complete baloney, pastramy, liverworst and any other sausage form of irrelevancy you, or any other for that matter, may care to mention. Laughably, the Merchant says that the problem here is that mind control is not against the law. What a complete coverup artist he is.I would like to challenge him, yes that's you Merchant of Venice, to show where the issue "mind control" even figures in the law books as an entity or process. I'm willing to guess it does not feature. Where does it even refer to mind control in status or common law? No, the problem here is that the "mind control"issue here is a figment and creation of those who have lacked other tools to attack groups such as the UC whom they seek to impede or destroy for their own reasons, personal and otherwise. It is by no means a widely recognized, or even discussed concept. Who are the folks who employ it, discuss it, promote it? Those who have an agenda against the groups which they attack. Lacking any basis for pursuing their campaigns against the majority of these groups, they justify them (their campaigns) with this theory. Without it, they know, no reasonable people would ever sanction the incredible defamation and psychologically violent attacks they indulge in. There is another reason, I believe, why this style of critics (ha! they are not critics, they are witch hunters) employ this "mind control" thing. IMHO, because of their closed and PREjudiced attitudes, they cannot find other ways to explain facts which come up, ie in relation to the UC, and, unwilling to admit these limitations in themselves, justify the "mind control" theory as the only possible explanation. But of course, it is not (the only possible explanation, or even one which fits the facts). Such is the danger of closed mindedness and personal agendas, the very things they visualize as belonging to the groups they address. NB. Of course I'm not saying that strange, unstable groups do not exist in the religious world. Like everywhere else, they do. But some critics whom I have read posting to this board have consistently skirted relevant facts, and resorted to aggressive and sophistic methods to push their points. And I'm not talking about those who raise relevant questions and seek to engage in constructive discussion about the UC, etc., about points of question, etc. I wish there was more sincere critics of integrity. Nothing enables certain aspects of the truth to come to light as sincere investigation and discussion by debate. Just as long as respect for differences, sincerity and honesty are valued, and the purpose is uncovering the truth, not destruction.
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 19:46:17 -0500 From: "Damian J. Anderson" To: One World Communications , Unification Texts Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian, alt.messianic Subject: Re: Is the Unification Church Christian? On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, MGM wrote: > In article , > "Damian J. Anderson" wrote: > > > Rev. Moon of course believes in the Bible and in Jesus, but is seen in > > the role of True Parents, along with his wife, and as such, they are the > > fulfilment of the expectations of all religions, not just Christianity. > > So, in the same way as Jesus came to fulfil the messianic expectation of > > Judaism, Rev. Moon comes to fulfil the Messianic expectation of > > Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and so on. So, UC is NOT a denomination of > > Christianity, but a religion on a new level. I hope this answers your > > question. > > Thanks for posting this. This is the clearest statement of this idea that > I have seen anywhere! I am glad that you are persevering in helping to > clear the misconceptions that surround the Unification Church. You are most welcome. I have a lot more materials online for you to read, but it sometimes helps to have a clear question answered concisely. Check out my Home Page listed below if you want more to read. Rev. Moon's 1976 speech at Washington Monument addresses this point very well. It can be found at: http://www.unification.net/1976/760918.html > MGM Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
Nov 7 1995 23:46 Subject: Unificationist self-identification For those who were asking me for a quote of Rev. Moon where he said that members of the Unification Church should identify themselves as such, here is one such quote that I just found: "Proclaim to the world, "I am a proud member for the Unification Church. That means I am a child of the True Parents." Don't try to hide that relationship. Anyone who takes a hiding place is automatically inviting the invasion of Satan. Do you understand? From now on you must say proudly, "I am a proud child of True Parents. Satan cannot touch me." Make up your mind about this. Can you do it, or not? Anybody who can do this, raise your hands high. Beautiful!" Rev. Sun Myung Moon, "Parents' Day and I" pp 10-11. March 27, 1990 World Mission Center New York City. I might add that the reason that members of the church may have been reluctant to identify themselves as such is because of experience of severe persecution in the past. Still, Rev. Moon says that we should be bold and strong and identify ourselves as Unification Church members, those of us who are.
Nov 8 1995 10:18 Subject: Rev. Moon's 1995 Speaking Tour Schedule I have an update to Rev. Moon's speaking schedule courtesy of Gerhard Toelke Rev. Sun Myung Moon just completed a 16 city speaking tour of the USA, beginning with an event at the Omni Shoreham Hotel in Washington, DC at 7 pm, September 10, 1995. He will now go on to a 160 country speaking tour over the next few months. Exact dates and venues will be posted here when I get the information. Stand by for details. The schedule I have here is: * November 5, 1995 - Paris, France * November 6, 1995 - Vienna, Austria * November 7, 1995 - Warsaw, Poland * November 8, 1995 - Rome, Italy * November 9, 1995 - Prague, Czech Republic * November 10, 1995 - Budapest, Hungary * November 11, 1995 - Madrid, Spain * November 12, 1995 - Frankfurt, Germany * November 14, 1995 - Ukraine * November 16, 1995 - Cote d'Ivoire * November 18, 1995 - Ghana * November 20, 1995 - Zaire * November 22, 1995 - South Africa * November 25, 1995 - India * November 27, 1995 - Philippines * November 29, 1995 - Australia * December 4, 1995 - Taiwan There will certainly be more events announced, but that is all I have for now. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
Nov 10 1995 01:28 Subject: Re: Unificationist self-identification Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic References: <815851249.16776@tilman.berlin.snafu.de> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service Distribution: Tilman Hausherr (tilman@berlin.snafu.de) wrote: : "Damian J. Anderson" wrote: : : >For those who were asking me for a quote of Rev. Moon where he said : >that members of the Unification Church should identify themselves : >as such, here is one such quote that I just found: : > : >"Proclaim to the world, "I am a proud member for the Unification : >Church. That means I am a child of the True Parents." Don't try : >to hide that relationship. Anyone who takes a hiding place is : >automatically inviting the invasion of Satan. Do you understand? : >From now on you must say proudly, "I am a proud child of True Parents. : >Satan cannot touch me." Make up your mind about this. Can you do : >it, or not? Anybody who can do this, raise your hands high. Beautiful!" : > : >Rev. Sun Myung Moon, : >"Parents' Day and I" : >pp 10-11. : >March 27, 1990 : ^^^^ : >World Mission Center : >New York City. : Wow. 1990. This means that all these who have done deceptive recruiting : or who still do so will be satanized ! That's HOT ! What it means is that Rev. Moon has publicly stated on MANY occasions, before and after this date, that he wanted church members to be straightforward in speaking about their affiliation. I heard him say it back in the 1970s and early 1980s, so it is not new. I could probably find you an earlier quote if I looked hard enough. I just happened to come across it without intentionally looking for this. When I saw it, I made a note of it, just for you! :-) : >I might add that the reason that members of the church may have : >been reluctant to identify themselves as such is because of experience : >of severe persecution in the past. Still, Rev. Moon says that we : >should be bold and strong and identify ourselves as Unification : >Church members, those of us who are. : I wonder if CARP, CAUSA and WONHWA-DO are aware of that moon quote. They are WELL AWARE of this, and I believe that those organizations do identify themselves as affiliated with Rev. Moon. If individuals do not, then they are going against the expressed desires of their religious leader. So, if they go against this, you know for sure they have a mind of their own! You can't have it both ways. : --- Tilman Hausherr Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
Nov 10 1995 01:30 From: shetterl@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Will Shetterly) Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam,talk.religion.buddhism Subject: Re: World Scripture - Love Your Enemy Date: Wed, 08 Nov 1995 12:54:22 -0600 Organization: University of Minnesota Lines: 45 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <47l7at$31n@thetimes.pixel.kodak.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup-2-139.gw.umn.edu Xref: zippy.cais.net alt.religion.unification:986 talk.religion.misc:188507 alt.religion.christian:64894 alt.religion.islam:20159 talk.religion.buddhism:13113 In article <47l7at$31n@thetimes.pixel.kodak.com>, trick@marmot.PCD1 wrote: > In article 0511951427070001@dialup-1-80.gw.umn.edu, shetterl@maroon.tc.umn.edu (Will Shetterly) writes: > >In article <47ibfa$qi3@sundog.tiac.net>, Jim Williams wrote: > > > >> Please stop posting these tracts in talk.religion.buddhism > > > >Are Buddhists really uninterested in the similarities between their > >beliefs and the beliefs of others? > > > If it is relevent to the path to enlightenment, I will be interested. Otherwise, > no. > > If you are a member of the Unification Church, I ask that you obtain a simple, > easy to follow instruction given by the Buddha himself. This instruction lists > the qualities that you should look for in a teacher. They include generosity, > patience, virtue, discipline, compassion, and wisdom. And examine your teacher. I'm not a member of the Unification Church or any organized religion (which strikes me as a contradiction in terms). I defended Anderson's posts because I have found some of them helpful. I do believe that there are universal human values, and the collections of quotes that he posts often demonstrate them. The path to enlightenment calls for us to choose from many paths and many path-makers; we cannot expect others to take the responsibility for our discovery of truth. As for the qualities of religious leaders, I believe the teachings are more important than the teachers. The history of the Catholic church, for example, is filled with corrupt popes, yet people like Francis of Assisi have found enlightenment despite the shortcomings of their teachers. It is true that a faith has to put some emphasis on compassion for that to happen; perhaps the only major organized religion that rules out enlightenment is Scientology, yet even it may evolve into something better than its founder intended. -- Will Shetterly * shetterl@maroon.tc.umn.edu ---------------------------------------------------- "Our democracy is but a name. We vote? What does that mean? It means that we choose between two bodies of real, though not avowed, autocrats, We choose between Tweedledum and Tweedledee." --Helen Keller, 1911 letter to British suffragist
From: damian@cais3.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic Subject: Is Jesus God Himself? Date: 15 Oct 1995 02:01:21 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Lines: 113 Message-ID: <45pq1h$2oa@zippy.cais.net> References: <453pfu$pih@zippy.cais.net> <45664o$90g@comet.connix.com> <457me0$d58@zippy.cais.net> <45dl1r$asf@cutter.clas.ufl.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: cais3.cais.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: zippy.cais.net alt.religion.unification:325 talk.religion.misc:184881 alt.religion.christian:59086 alt.messianic:42792 Thomas F DiLustro (ponzini@grove.ufl.edu) wrote: : Jesus was fully man but Jesus was also fully God. God Incarnate. This : seems to be something that the Moon organization has trouble with. No, we do not have TROUBLE with it, it is just not what we believe, although we recognize that other Christians do believe that. I refer you to the Divine Principle teaching on Christology, Chapter 7 at URL: http://www.unification.net/dp73/dp73-1-7.html : When He said "I am the way" he was saying that without Him there could be : no salvation. Jesus Christ's sacrifice and resurrection cannot be : duplicated and cannot be dismissed as a failure. It is the way to : salvation. Jesus came to build God's Kingdom, and anything less is not complete success. : This was not some quick decision by the Son as if He said, "Hmmm. It is : not going so well as I expected down here. Guess I'll check out and go : home in time for dinner." No sir. Look into the Prophets and you will : see that this event was foretold long before you think. This is because : the entire Passion was within the foreknowledge and the plan of God. And the glorious Lord was also prophesied in Isaiah 9, 11 and 60. There were more prophecies of the glorious Lord than of the suffering servant. The former would happen if people believed, the latter if not. : If you intend to insinuate that Jesus Christ somehow failed or was : otherwise incapable of fulfilling His mission here on earth I would say : to you that that is hogwash. It would seem you don't understand anything : about the plan of salvation. Accusations of hogwash are not enough to convince me, sorry. And since that section on Jesus not being God Himself is not so long, I will include it here: IS JESUS GOD HIMSELF? When Philip asked Jesus to show him God, Jesus said to him, "He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father?' Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me?" (John 14:9-10). Again the Bible says, "He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not." (John 1:10). Further, it is written, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." (John 8:58). On the grounds of all these Biblical verses, many Christians have hitherto believed that Jesus is God Himself, the Creator. As demonstrated above, Jesus, as a man having fulfilled the purpose of creation, is one body with God. So, in light of his deity, he may well be called God. Nevertheless, he can by no means be God Himself. The relationship between God and Jesus can be compared to that between the mind and body. The body, as the substantial object which resembles the mind, is one body with the mind, so it may be called a second mind (image of the mind), but the body can by no means be the mind itself. In like manner, Jesus, being one body with God, may be called a second God (image of God), but he can by no means be God Himself. It is true that he who has seen Jesus has seen God (John 14:9-10); but Jesus did not say this to indicate that he was God Himself. It is written (John 1:14) that Jesus is the Word made flesh. This means that Jesus is the substantiation of the Word; that is, the incarnation of the Word. Then, it is written (John 1:3) that all things were made through the Word, and again (John 1:10), that the world was made through Jesus; naturally, Jesus may be called the Creator. According to the principle of creation, the world of creation is the substantial development of the character and form of a man of perfected individuality. So, a man who has fulfilled the purpose of creation is the substantial encapsulation of the entire cosmos, and the center of harmony in the whole creation. In that sense, it may also be said that the world was created by a man of perfection. God intended to have man, after his perfection through the fulfillment of his own portion of responsibility, stand in the position of the creator over all things, by giving him even His own creative nature. Seen from this perspective, we can understand that the Bible (John 1:10) only clarifies the fact that Jesus was a man who had perfected the purpose of creation, and does not signify that he was the Creator Himself. Jesus was a descendant of Abraham; but since he came as the human ancestor giving rebirth to all mankind, he would become the forefather of Abraham, in light of the providence of restoration. This is why Jesus said (John 8:58), "...before Abraham was, I am.". We must understand that this also does not signify that Jesus was God Himself. Jesus, on earth, was a man no different from us except for the fact that he was without original sin. Even in the spirit world after his resurrection, he lives as a spirit man with his disciples. The only difference between them is that Jesus abides as a spirit man of the divine spirit stage, emitting brilliant light, while his disciples are the objects who reflect this light. Meanwhile, Jesus has been interceding for us before God even in the spirit world after his resurrection (Rom. 8:34), just as he did on earth. If Jesus is God Himself, how could he intercede for us before Himself? Moreover, we see that Jesus also called upon "God" or "Father" for help, which is good evidence that he is not God Himself (Matt. 27:46, John 17:1). If Jesus was God Himself, how could God have been tempted by Satan, and finally crucified by the evil force? Furthermore, when we find that Jesus said on the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" it becomes clear that Jesus is not God Himself. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
6 -rw------- 1 damian cais_use 2628 Jan 13 12:28 art09 From zippy.cais.net!cais3.cais.com!damian Sat Oct 14 23:28:37 1995 Path: zippy.cais.net!cais3.cais.com!damian From: damian@cais3.cais.com (Damian J. Anderson) Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic Subject: Re: Jesus' original mission Followup-To: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic Date: 15 Oct 1995 02:21:41 GMT Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Lines: 42 Message-ID: <45pr7l$2oa@zippy.cais.net> References: <45fej8$4p1@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <45ga4e$m1t@newsbf02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cais3.cais.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: zippy.cais.net alt.religion.unification:327 talk.religion.misc:184885 alt.religion.christian:59092 alt.messianic:42798 Bob Mendo (bobmendo@aol.com) wrote: : No, it's not confusing. Jesus came to die for our sins. He rose from the : dead by the plan of God. Plan A. Not a surprise to God. He knew all along : (Isaiah 53, Daniel 9, Micah 5, Genesis 3)... : Shalom. : Bob No, Jesus DID NOT COME TO BE MURDERED BY A MOB. He came to build the Kingdom of God, hence his preaching on the subject, and his terrible anguish at the time of the crucifixion. He had a lot more work to do, but it was left unfulfilled until the Second Coming. Let me ask you a few of questions: (a) If you were alive at the time of Jesus, would you have called on Pilate to crucify Jesus? (b) Would you have participated in the killing of Jesus? (c) Do you think that the plan of God required of you to believe in Jesus and follow him at the risk of your life, or to crucify him? (d) Do you think that the people who killed Jesus were doing God's will or Satan's will? (e) Do you think that Judas sinned by betraying Jesus, given that Jesus said that man would be better off not to have been born than to do this? (f) Would you have been angry and indignant at the unjust murder of your master, or would you have rejoiced at the injustice of it all? This is just some food for thought, but I just cannot accept that God wanted the Jewish people to crucify Jesus. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
9 -rw------- 1 damian cais_use 4409 Nov 10 01:57 art10 Subject: Re: Rev. Moon's teaching on the Holocaust Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.support.ex-cult,alt.messianic References: <474hra$9ok@zippy.cais.net> <47llvm$jh5@kalypso.cybercom.net> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service Distribution: Ron Newman (rnewman@kalypso.cybercom.net) wrote: : In article <474hra$9ok@zippy.cais.net>, : Damian J. Anderson wrote: : >I don't know of any one speech where I read this, but it is pretty : >clear to me that Rev. Moon teaches that the Jewish people sinned : >grievously by killing Jesus. The fact that Hitler killed 6 million : >Jews was not the will of God. However, the law of indemnity or : >karma is such that God could not protect them when they sinned : >but had to allow Satan to attack them, : Can you say more about the "law of indemnity or karma" as taught : in Moonie theology? I was under the impression that "karma" : was a Hindu concept, but Moonism claims to be a Christian sect. The law of indemnity is explained in the Divine Principle, the main authorized text of Unification teachings, in particular in Part II, under the Principles of Restoration through Indemnity. You can find the whole book on my Home Page under the URL: http://www.unification.net/dp73/ In a nutshell, when a wrong has been done, then the wrongdoer must make right what was done. If it is not done in the generation in which the sin was committed, then the responsibility does not go away but is inherited by the descendents of the sinner. For this reason, though no human alive is responsible personally for the original sin of Adam against God, we are all in a position of alienation from God because of that original sin. Also, many times we see the same problems passed on from one generation to the next, such as alcoholism, a propensity to commit suicide, crime, aduiltery, divorce, all these problems tend to be passed on. The Unification Church DOES NOT claim to be a Christian sect. It claims to fulfil the expectation of Christianity of the second coming of Christ. The concept of restitution for evil and inheritance of the consequences of sin is not merely a Hindu concept. How about this: "For I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments." Exodus 20.5-6 : *I* didn't kill Jesus and neither did any other human (Jew or : otherwise) currently living. You want to hold me responsible : for what some other people did 1935 years ago? I am not holding YOU responsible for any sin. However, we all live with the consequences of the mistakes of our forbears, whether we are responsible for their mistakes or not. For example, I never personally enslaved a black man, but as a member of the white race, I have to bear some of the responsibility for my race having committed an injustice against my black brothers. The same is true with *any* sin of our forbears. While we may not have committed the sin personally, we may have to work out our peace with the victims of our ancestors' crimes, like it or not. : You're a raving anti-Semitic loon. I don't think so. I believe that I am a reasonable and loving man. I have two Jewish sisters-in-law and I love them both, and I have many Jewish friends. : If you got this twisted ideology from Moon then he's one too. I have to apologize for misrepresenting what Rev. Moon taught, earlier in this thread, and I have a copy of a statement which he made about the Holocaust in 1976, which I will publish here, when I get the time to scan it. : Ron Newman rnewman@cybercom.net Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com
7 -rw------- 1 damian cais_use 3278 Nov 10 02:11 art11 Subject: Re: CAN, TRANCENET, etc. Newsgroups: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,alt.meditation.transcendental,alt.mindcontrol,alt.recovery.religion,alt.religion.christian.boston-church,alt.religion.eckankar,alt.religion.krishna,alt.religion.scientology,alt.clearing.technology,sci.skeptic,alt.meditation,alt.consciousness.mysticism,alt.journalism Followup-To: alt.support.ex-cult,alt.religion.unification,alt.meditation.transcendental,alt.mindcontrol,alt.recovery.religion,alt.religion.christian.boston-church,alt.religion.eckankar,alt.religion.krishna,alt.religion.scientology,alt.clearing.technology,sci.skeptic,alt.meditation,alt.consciousness.mysticism,alt.journalism References: <467cjj$2ju@linet02.li.net> <479l2l$okn@nnrp2.news.primenet.com> <47bl9k$19ko@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <47r0r7$5gc@sunfish.hi.com> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service Distribution: Bill Scorzelli (bill@hi.com) wrote: : Name a mainstream religion in existence today that would *not* : have been considered a cult when it was in its infant state? : When it comes to cults people need to use their common sense. : People write books about all sorts of things. There are : critics for every organization in existence today. The main : thing is not to become an extremist/hippocrite. Some people on : this newsgroup were going to save the world by teaching TM, years : later they decided now they are going to save the world *from* TM. : I think most people do not take these extremists seriously. Better : to have them busy creating suspect databases than blowing up airplanes. : I take up jogging because I hear it is good for my health. One day : I step into a hole and break my leg. Now I feel jogging is dangerous. : I create a database which contains "jogging casualties" to alert : nonjoggers of the inherit dangers of jogging. I show them all the : money they will spend on sneakers and jogging outfits. As other : jogging casualties tell me their stories I get all fired up. I : can't sleep at night because I know someone is out there jogging. : You've *got* to laugh, :^) You are SO FUNNY! Ha ha! I had to laugh out loud! And of course you are right! :-) The anti-cult people are more of a cult than anyone they criticise for being a cult and seem to practice the behaviors they loathe and condemn the most in their targets of vitriol. Maybe the jogger was mind-controlled into jogging and then he snapped out of it when he broke his leg! It seems like mind-control has become so broad as to encompass the whole art of persuasion in any of its forms. So Slick Willy Clinton would be a prime practitioner of mind-control, closely followed by all the other politicos and media people in America. It sounds like the term has been diluted so much as to have become meaningless, which it was all along anyhow! : -Bill Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home +1-202-267-9403 Work damian@unification.net Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net Web Pages in French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Italian See daily articles on talk.religion.misc, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts" to unification-texts-request@webcom.com Send "subscribe world-scripture" to world-scripture-request@webcom.com