Responses to Questions on
Unificationism on the Internet - Volume 27


Apr 18 1996 Subject: Re: Join the Unification FAQ Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic References: <263.6679T1414T240@mercury.interpath.com> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service info@cais.com 703-448-4470 Distribution: Kevin W. Davidson (kwdavids@mercury.interpath.com) wrote: : I was rather surprised to find myself part of a Unification Church : FAQ. My remarks neatly packged and refuted. I'm not alone; many : T.R.M posters are there. : See: http://www.unification.net/faq/uniffaq06.html : for example. : Kevin (soft-logik@cup.portal.com) Hi Kevin, If you don't like my references to your remarks, which you made in a public forum, then I can cease to attribute them to you, or can paraphrase them to express the issue that I was responding to. In any case, everything you or anyone else has ever said on the Usenet is available for search through the Deja News Usenet archives. It goes back several years. The Unification Home Page attempts to present the Unificationist view of the world and the FAQ is a collection of my writings on the subject. Opposing views are widely available elsewhere. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, German, Japanese, ... and more, 11 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Apr 20 1996 On Fri, 19 Apr 1996, Borovicka wrote: > To damian- > I fully agree with your message. As I read through the quotes, I > noticed that you either did not find or did not include a Baha'i quote. I > am a Baha'i, and I would like to leave you with a story, rather than > message, to complete the list of religious messages. > > The Bab (the forerunner to Baha'u'llah, who is the founder of the > Baha'i Faith) once had company over for lunch. As they were eating, a > group roused people to gather together and kill The Bab. (Just as Christ > was persecuted against, The Bab was, also.) The people eating with The > Bab heard them and drew their swords. "Let us protect you." they begged, > but The Bab did not allow them to do so. Once He heard them approach > quite near, He opened the door and addressed the mob. "We were just > having lunch," He said. "Pray, come join us." They of course, were > shocked at first but they accepted his hospitality with open mouths and > it turned out to be an enjoyable evening for all of them. This is a good story. There are many other such stories, such as the late North Korean President Kim Il Sung trying three times in his life to kill Rev. Moon, once in 1946 by having him beaten and left for dead in the snow, once in 1948 by sending him to a labor concentration camp, where he survived, then he sent terrorists to the USA in the early 1980s to kill Rev. Moon but they were intercepted by the FBI, apparently by chance. After all this, Rev. Moon went to meet Kim Il Sung in his own land when his country was in crisis in 1991, and they warmly embraced with no hard feelings. This year, Rev. Moon has sent 7000 tons of rice to feed North Korea since the people are starving, though his son Kim Jong Il is now in power. The power of love ultimately beats all other power in this world and that is the principle behind turning the other cheek. That is the strategy that God has used throughout history to destroy the power of evil. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, German, Japanese, ... and more, 11 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Apr 20 1996 Subject: Re: Why Does God speak to us via prophets and not directly? Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic References: <4jkhu5$2o3@milo.vcn.bc.ca> <4kgq4k$2qdp@admaix.sunydutchess.edu> <4khecd$4a3@news2.cais.com> <4l6tbf$mhh@news.tcd.net> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service Distribution: ALLYN RIGBY ("allyn9@tcd.net"@tcd.net) wrote: > All can and should be a Prophet of God. If we will still our minds > and hearts long enough, one can hear his voice, and know that he > is. God loves all of his children, but will not interfear with > our agency to choose. God still talks to man, we just need to > listen to him. I agree. Those who hear and act on the voice of God become the prophets of their age. Though this capability to hear and act on the voice of God is open to all people, rather few people seem to do it. Those who do so stand out as prophets and lights in the encircling darkness. : Your Brother in Christ, Allyn L. Rigby Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, German, Japanese, ... and more, 11 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Apr 22 1996 On Mon, 22 Apr 1996 J329@aol.com wrote: > Damian, I am inquiring about your church's approach to God's existence. > Does your teaching attempt to prove God's existence? If so is this proof > based on a revelation or is it a constructed idea (from human mind)? I've > had an opportunity to read your idea of the Principle of Creation. Am I > right that your idea is that God can be know by looking at God's created > world? If so your argument is a variation of the cause from design approach > to God's existence. My question then centers around Hume's criticism of this > approach as being a cause-effect argument that has severe pitfalls. His > devastating criticism of this approach, as you are aware, is that looking at > the effect and infering that it reflects a cause, in this case God, is not > provable or a logical connection. Do you have a response to these above > matters? I feel if you are able to assist me with this hurdle regarding > your teachings I can procede in my understandings of this work. > > Many thanks. J329 Hello J329, The Divine Principle does not attempt to prove the existence of God, it asserts and affirms God's existence as the ultimate reality. It then goes on to talk about the nature of God and the ideal that He envisioned for humanity. It then talks about why this ideal did not come about as a result of the human fall from grace, and then God's subsequent work throughout history to restore the original ideal. You may like the speech that Rev. Moon gave last Tuesday before an assembly of American leaders in politics and business. It can be found at: http://www.unification.net/1996/960416.html It is called "View of the Principle of the Providential History of Salvation." I hope this answers your question, Sincerely, Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, German, Japanese, ... and more, 11 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Apr 22 1996 From damian@cais.cais.comMon Apr 22 09:28:26 1996 Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 09:27:34 -0400 From: "Damian J. Anderson" To: one-world-com@garcia.com Cc: Unification Texts Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian, alt.messianic Subject: Re: Founders Address 4/16 | MY VIEW On Mon, 22 Apr 1996 D.F. wrote: > Damian wrote > > < involves among other things announcing the truth. People cannot change > their erroneous concepts of Jesus and his life and death without > understanding what Father revealed about his origins and the sad course of > his life. >> > > I don't know about the last statement, Damian. These things remained > unrevealed even to most Church members until very recently. From my own point > of view, the tragedy of John failing to follow Jesus as explained in DP is > even more compelling for understanding Jesus' life and mission than the idea > that he should have married Zechariah's daughter or that Mary sinned by > having sex with Joseph. That is why I felt that in the future we should > educate our guests more (if possible) before bringing them to hear Father. I > felt there too many of his pearls were cast before swine this time. One very important thing that Father said was that Jesus' mission was supposed to be supported by Zechariah, Mary and Elizabeth. He is saying that he only went out and looked for disciples because of the failure of that family. Also, the failure of John the Baptist had already taken place in his parents' generation because although they had received the revelation that Jesus was the Messiah, they failed to act on it, protect him and raise him up so that he could fulfill that mission, or to raise up John to filfil his mission as the herald for Jesus. What people can accept is immaterial. Father has a mission to reveal the truth and he is doing it. It doesn't seem to have hurt me. I have gained two spiritual children this year alone merely by proclaiming Father's message, and those are the first spiritual children I have EVER had. I have no regrets and no intention of breaking people lightly into the inner secrets of the archaic Unificationism that witholds God's truth which are the words of life. Father tells us to speak 24 hours a day and to teach the Divine Principle. I have several witnessing robots working for me 24 hours a day. They are called the World Wide Web, Usenet, E-mail, and so on. > In any case, what do you think the content of Father's speech implies in > terms of how we approach people and the order in which we reveal Father's > insights. For example, should the content of Father's speech now be included > in the lecture on Jesus' mission? I'm trying to keep an open mind about this. > We are in the age of the Net, after all; and there may be something to the > idea that all information should be made available to everyone, with no > particular order involved--in terms of basic and advanced knowledge. This, > however, is a big adjustment from the care we have traditionally taken to > reveal things step by step. The Divine Principle book itself says that it is not a complete revelation and that many more things will be revealed in the course of time, so, I think that we should integrate what Father has just revealed into the body of teaching the Divine Principle. It seems to me that you are the one having difficulty accepting it, not the public. > D.F. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, German, Japanese, ... and more, 12 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Apr 23 1996 Subject: Re: Existence of Hell Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic References: <317A5A9B.42E0@nextek.com> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service Bees (zeteo@nextek.com) wrote: : I would appreciate some individual persepctives on the existance of a : literal hell. Please respond to the following statement..."In Christ is : eternal life apart from Him is eternal death...not eternal punishment" : Thanks Hi Bees, When humanity fell into sin, it came to dwell in the realm separated from God's love, namely hell. That hell exists in the physical world and it exists in the spiritual world. The only difference is that when we die, there is no more room for illusion, and the hell becomes more manifestly clear. Likewise, heaven can be in the physical world, as well as in the spiritual world. I liked the quote from "Field of Dreams" where the ball player said: "Is this heaven" to which the farmer replied "No, this is Iowa." Wherever God's spirit dwells, there is heaven, and where it does not dwell, there is hell. As for it being eternal, well no. We are commanded to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand. When we repent, we have the power to reject evil, cease sinning and to become sons and daughters of God. This is the promise of the Christian message. And I don't believe for a moment that the God of love wants to punish anyone for eternity. If He did so, then He would be a bloodthirsty tyrant. The God of love is bitterly grieved over the plight of His children, so much so that he sheds bitter tears and laments over the children that He lost and has been seeking to restore to His grace since the dawn of human history. That is why He has worked to restore mankind from sin and to make us His full sons and daughters, completely unblemished by sin, and fully in His image. This will only be fully completed when the Lord manifests Himself again at the time of the Second Coming. That time is here. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, German, Japanese, ... and more, 12 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Apr 23 1996 On Mon, 22 Apr 1996, B. wrote: > I've seen a few of your many articles. Why do you write so much under the > topic "religion?" I mean, I'm just wondering. "Religion" is the only topic I > ever look under. I just never saw so many articles written by the same > person. -B I am a man on a mission, an evangelist. The Lord has come again and it is my solemn duty to proclaim his message to the world. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, German, Japanese, ... and more, 12 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Apr 28 1996 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:44:26 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 28 Apr 1996 M. L. B. wrote: > Mr. Damian Anderson, > > I need your help on the subject of the unification of church > and the mooines. I'm doing a group project and my part is the > present status of the mooines and unification of church. I was > wondering if you could just answer the foolowing qestions for and > give me anymore information that you may feel that might be an > importance to my paper. For a start, you need to know that the term "Moonies" is considered a pejorative term, like calling a black man a "nigger". > * How many members are there today? and How many were there to start > with? I don't know how many members there are, but the church started out with 5 members along with Reverend Sun Myung Moon on May 1, 1954 in Seoul, Korea. Let me just say that last year, there was a wedding for 360,000 couples and next year, there will be one for 3.6 million couples, so our numbers are growing. You may get better luck on this question by contacting the President of the Unification Church in America, Rev. Dr. Tyler Hendricks at hendricks@hsanahq.org in New York City. > * Is there one place that is consider the central meeting place? No, we have churches in every country in the world where it is legal to have a church, and even in some where it is not. > * What actually goes on within the churches? We pray, study scripture, have sermons, conduct Sunday School, teach seminars, much as any other church does. > Thank you for your time. I would really appreicated your help. You have access to a lot of material on the Unification Church on the Unification Home Page at: http://www.unification.net on the Web. > Sincerely, > M. L. B. Regards, Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, German, Japanese, ... and more, 12 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Apr 28 1996 Subject: Re: World Scripture - Government by Divine Law Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.islam References: <4ltoec$lhd@crcnis3.unl.edu> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service Distribution: world Ed Pearlstein (e_p@unlinfo.unl.edu) wrote: : "Damian J. Anderson" writes, in part: : >GOVERNMENT BY DIVINE LAW : > Modern Western constitutional governments, as well, are founded on : the Judeo-Christian principle that government should be subservient to : >certain universal laws (e.g., human rights and social duties). In ancient : Where is human rights a Judeo-Christian principle? Not in the Bible. : There is no mention of consent of the governed, free speeach, freedom : of religion, etc. in the Bible. In case you had not noticed, the people who founded the constitutional republic of the United States of America trusted God as their sole source of inspiration for all that they did in constituting the government of a self-governing people. They did what they did from the firm belief in the value of all human beings as children of the universal Heavenly Father. This is a principle deeply rooted in the monotheistic religions, the people of the Book, namely, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. There is no higher statement of the value of human beings. We would do well to remember that in these dangerous times when people want to do away with the inconvenient human beings such as the elderly, the unborn, the sick and the weak. The disregard of human rights is the trademark of regimes founded on Godless ideologies such as Nazism and Marxism-Leninism. : >declare that certain human rights are inalienable and God-given. Govern- : ments cannot disregard the rights of the people because those rights are : not the government's to grant; enshrined in a constitution, they come from : >a higher Law. : Where is this "higher law" about rights? Not in the Bible. Try Aristotle, and St. Thomas Aquinas' application of his philosophy to Natural Law and his Christian theology. How about the declaration of the Kingdom of God? Is that not an appeal to the law of the Sermon on the Mount? How about the Ten Commandments. Are they not the basic laws by which men can live together in peace? Man's laws are but a poor reflection of the Heavenly Law that we all must live by, or face the eternal consequences. Sorry, but the higher law is the domain of religion, not of today's secularists. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, German, Japanese, ... and more, 12 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Apr 29 1996 On Sun, 14 Apr 1996 pswitzer@main.cyberspy.com wrote: > Sharpe WWW Pages Damian! Thanks! :-) > Since I don't have the time to Keep up with the misinformation from > the family, a few questions. > > 1. Did you know your wife before Mr Moon matched you two up? No. We met one week before we married. > 2. Requarding the North Korean request for relief. Will Mr. Moon give > that refief, because at one point in time he preached that the DPRK > was his satan of the world and one of him missions (his main one being > to control the world) was to see the complete downfall of the DPRK. The food aid is being administered through the United Nations World Food Program. Check out the Summit Council Humanitarian Relief Fund web page at: http://home.erols.com/scwpeace > 3. I see you publish the fact that Mr Moon teaches that he is the > messiah. That used to be 'THE BIG SECERT', when did this policy > change? I could not tell you exactly, but I believe he began speaking about this openly in 1993 at about the same time that he and his wife began proclaiming their mission worldwide. This was never a secret inside the church, but the time was not right before for him to say this publicly, but now it is. You may be interested in the collection of speeches called "Proclamation of the Messiah" at: http://www.unification.net/pr-mes This was in January 1993 that he made his messianic proclamation publicly. Then he and his wife declared the message "True Parents and the Completed Testament Age" worldwide in 1993. You may also remember that Jesus instructed his disciples not to tell people that he was the Messiah, at least at that time, because the time was not ripe. After his death and resurretion, he gave the Great Commission to teach and make disciples of all nations. I and other Unificationists have received that Great Commission from Reverend Moon and I am his one of his apostles. > 4. Do the True Parents still have all those MFT teams running around > collecting 10's of millions of dollars each year? Do they still train > the team members to lie about who get the money? Started any drug > treatment programs lately? We have many businesses that make money. Those businesses support the church. There are also many tithing members. We never instructed people to lie. That is a myth perpetuated by our critics. And I don't think that we do any drug programs. Instead, we teach God's word, and by people changing their lives to live for God, they overcome such problems as substance abuse, sexual promiscuity and so on. > 5. How come 99% of the predictions the Mr Moon made never came true? Your question contains a fallacious statement. Rev. Moon predicted the demise of atheistic communism back in 1972, saying that by its seventieth year, it would be over, and sure enough, by 1987, communism was dying and two years later, the Berlin wall came down, the Soviet Empire collapsed and now it only exists in Cuba, North Korea and China. In addition, he said back in the 1950s all the things that he would be doing in the future, such as bringing people together in international and inter-racial marriages, that he would be teaching God's message to world leaders. All these things have happened. He has also said that unless Western democratic society repents of its hedonistic decadent ways, it will collapse from the weight of its own corruption just as the Roman Empire did. Tell me that it isn't true! > 6. I know I'm just Satan, right? WRONG Damian! I have the freedom to > think for myself. Do you? Speak for yourself. Either you are for God or against Him. I am free and I choose God's way. Your choice is your business. And either way, we all live with the consequences of our choices. > Good Luck!! Thanks. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, German, Japanese, ... and more, 13 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
Apr 29 1996 Here is some more definitive information on when Rev. and Mrs. Moon made the public proclamation of their messianic mission. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, German, Japanese, ... and more, 13 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 15:21:49 +0800 (HKT) From: jegonzal@HK.Super.NET To: damian@cais.cais.com Subject: Re: Hostile questions on Unificationism >> 3. I see you publish the fact that Mr. Moon teaches that he is the >> messiah. That used to be 'THE BIG SECRET, when did this policy >> change? > >I could not tell you exactly, but I believe he began speaking about >this openly in 1993 .... > >This was in January 1993 that he made his messianic proclamation >publicly. Then he and his wife declared the message "True Parents >and the Completed Testament Age" worldwide in 1993. ... Dear Damian, I enjoy your answers and appreciate very much your pioneering work of communicating our message through the net. If this question appear again, according to my records these are the dates of the official declaration: July 6, 1992 at the rally for leaders of the Women's Federation for World Peace, Seoul, Korea The Reappearance of the True Parents and the Ideal Family Reverend Sun Myung Moon President, Federation for World Peace "... I have fulfilled my mission as the Lord of the Second Advent, Saviour and the True Parent. I am proclaiming this in this place because the time has come to do so. Those who accept this will be blessed....." August 24, 1992, Seoul Korea "... In early July, I spoke in five cities around Korea at rallies held by the Women's Federation for World Peace. There, I declared that my wife, WFWP President Hak Ja Han Moon, and I are the True Parents of all humanity. I declared that we are the Saviour, the Lord of the Second Advent, the Messiah. ....." Best regards. ITL Jesus G. ___________________________________________ Jesus Gonzalez Losada Flat 504, 21-23 Macdonnell Road, Hong Kong Tel: 852 2526 3842, Fax: 852 2526 3856 E-mail: jegonzal@hk.super.net ___________________________________________
Apr 29 1996 On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, F.R. wrote: > >On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, F.R. wrote: > > > >> Heart-felt, "Damian", believe me. Your posts are very interesting. > > > >Here are a few questions for you. Which posts in particular do you find > >interesting? Where did you see them? Would you like to subscribe to my > >mailing lists? > > Of greatest interest to me are the ones in which you quote from > different religions the wisdom that their Scriptures contain. I like > these because they show us just how much wisdom we all share round the > world and how tragic it is that we should, in spite of all that, still > find it in ourselves to make wars and all the rest of the madness > that has given us our "norm" for so many centuries. The notes to which > you attach these are usually of interest too. You may find the complete World Scripture on my web page at: http://www.unification.net/ws > I must admit that I don't share in all your beliefs, but it would be > amazing if anyone agreed so well with anyone else, I guess. The main > thing to me has always been the fact that you do seem to accept the > special place of Christ in the Life of our world, not that it's by > such acceptance alone that one gains one's place in Heaven, but simply > because it gives us the same foundation for our beliefs about God. Rev. Moon teaches that mission unites and doctrine divides. So, if we can agree on tasks to fulfill, such as the promotion of Christian ideals and values and those held in common with other faiths, then we have no pressing need for doctrinal uniformity. There is one absolute, unique and eternal truth and we all have a part of it. > I see your posts on alt.religion.christian, I think, always. I only > subscribe to sci.physics other than a.r.c. anyway. > > Subscribe to your mailing lists? Well, yes, if I don't have to attend > any meetings in far-flung places or near-. :-) No commitment required, but neither is commitment to this life of faith discouraged. :-) Some people I know LIKE to attend meetings in far-flung places. I do. The World Scripture list merely sends out one post per day, the same one I post on the net. The Unification Texts list usually contains the speeches of Rev. Moon, and excerpts of books on Unificationist teachings. That is usually about 3 messages per day. > I gather you're from the Unification Church and I plan to find out more > about you all as soon as time permits. I do, of course, know of you, > but not at this moment all that much about you. Perhaps the mailing > lists will help. If the volume is not in the "superstratospherically > massive" bracket, O.K.. Yes, I am the most visible representative of the Unification Church on the net, without question. > >There you go, your turn. :-) > > > >Regards, > > A back-hand top spin to your fore-hand. :-) Oh for a game of tennis. I have to work on getting into shape. Sitting at computer screens too long is not good for my posture, or my back, or my belly. May God bless you abundantly, Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, Korean, Japanese, ... and more, 13 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to listserv@garcia.com Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to listserv@garcia.com
May 1 1996 From news2.cais.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!torfree!ca347 Wed May 1 09:34:47 1996 Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification Path: news2.cais.com!news.cais.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!torfree!ca347 From: ca347@torfree.net (Reed Darsey) Subject: Re: Trying to convert people Message-ID: Organization: Toronto Free-Net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 04:39:07 GMT Lines: 105 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <31710d7b.2345627@news.snafu.de>, tilman@berlin.snafu.de (Tilman Hausherr) wrote: [...] > The two members were pro-church, Andy. They are not apostates. Here is > what they said: > > 1. Reed Darsey : [...] > >2. Attila Mina : [...] > Do you know what does it mean? There are many evidents in the Bible [...] Since Attila never followed up on more of the Biblical citations, and my "common sense" approach was lost on you, I'll give a few examples from the _Divine Principle_ book, that anybody with a web browser could of looked up on Damian's page in the meanwhile (rather than nitpicking Andy about it). For most people, to have a friend give a more valuable gift than stated, would endear that person to them more, not less. And would you rather frequent a shop where you get sold exactly 1 kg of goods for the price of 1 kg or where the clerk "errs" a bit on the side of 1.2 or 1.4 kg? To the average person, not engaged in mind control debates, someone who gives "more" is a good person. And, since you apparently don't even believe in God, what difference does it make whether He or His champions tell the truth all the time or not? Anyway, the quickest three examples are from the Old Testament, about Moses, Abraham, and Jacob. The first example is from the _Divine Principle_, page 309, is Moses' use of deception: When Pharaoh, having surrendered to Moses, permitted the Israelites to offer sacrifices there, Moses deceived Pharaoh and obtained three days' permission by saying: It would not be right to do so; for we shall sacrifice to the Lord our God offerings abominable to the Egyptians. If we sacrifice offerings abominable to the Egyptians before their eyes, will they not stone us? We must go three days' journey into the wilderness and sacrifice to the Lord our God as he will command us. (Ex. 8:26-27) Thus Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. Is there any denying that Moses was a champion of God? Are his results negated due to his "methods"? The second example is from _Divine Principle_ pages 264-5, about Abraham: According to Biblical verses (Gen. 12:10), Abraham once went down to Egypt because of a famine. When the Pharaoh of Egypt wanted to take his wife Sarah, Abraham, as planned beforehand, told the Pharaoh that she was his sister, lest the King should kill him if he found out that they were husband and wife. In other words, the "father of faith" lied to the Pharaoh. Jacob's use of guile (Gen. 27:35) is found on _Divine Principle_ page 278: First, Jacob had to set up a condition of victory in his struggle to restore the birthright on the individual level. Satan had occupied God's world of creation in the position of the elder son. God, from the position of the younger son, had worked His providence to take the birthright of the elder. This is why God "hated" the elder and loved the younger (Mal. 1:2-3). Meanwhile, Jacob, who had been called even in his mother's womb with the mission to restore the elder's birthright, wisely took the birthright from his elder brother Esau, with some bread and a pottage of lentils (Gen. 25:34). God had Isaac bless Jacob because he tried to restore the birthright, knowing its value (Gen. 27:27), while He did not bless Esau because he, on the contrary, thought so little of the birthright that he sold it for a pottage of lentils. Yet still in Rom. 9:13 the point about God loving Jacob is recounted. Further, in Ex. 3:6 God said to Moses, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob." Is He disowning any of them? There are more stories like this in the Old Testament, and then we have the New Testament to cover, too. __________________________________________________________________ Reed Darsey, Grand Bay, Alabama, USA maf00039@maf.mobile.al.us -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQBVAwUBMYWXxj8Bdv6uW++1AQFBOwIAkaJ9WqHFzDV8mKroW137iy+oThhdSBE1 GwtY0lFeXnIPMzYDcdk707zETGXCD4Gb+GAQ0nR3LVUgtD60gKyjnQ== =c8RQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
May 7 1996 Subject: If Christ died for our sins, why repent? Newsgroups: alt.religion.unification,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.christian,alt.messianic References: <4mdhrg$qqj@news.jhu.edu> <4mi2k0$oip@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service Distribution: Udomu (judom@ohana.com) wrote: : Interesting question I just thought of: if Jesus died for our sins, why do : we still have to repent for them? Well, very simply, Christ's sacrifice is only efficacious for those who repent, believe and then live holy lives. For the others, they still go to hell, even though Christ gave his life for them. But for those who believe, he gave the power to become sons of God, according to John's gospel. : Anyway, back to your little discussion. : -- : Udomu : judom@ohana.com : http://www.ohana.com/~judom/ Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, Korean, Japanese, ... and more, 13 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to damian@unification.net Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to damian@unification.net
May 11 1996 Subject: Re: ELOHIM: THE DIVINE COUPLE Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian,alt.christnet,alt.christnet.bible,alt.christnet.theology,alt.christnet.evangelical,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.unification References: <31730A71.64B3@cannet.com> <317AAC64.2FB0@cannet.com> <317E51F2.5AB5@bisco.kodak.com> <4luq9r$6d4@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3186E85F.48F8@cannet.com> <318F2BCB.6681@bcpl.lib.md.us> <4mnoe5$dc3@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <319235DC.6107@bcpl.lib.md.us> <4mu029$kgb@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> Organization: Capital Area Internet Service the ROYster-Meister (wilsonr@PEAK.ORG) wrote: : On 9 May 1996, Libertarius wrote: : Once again, the grammar: "God created man in His (singular) : image." Man was created in the image of a single being, not of multiple : beings. "In the image of Elohim He created him." This singluar God, the : single "he" of the previous clause, has some sort of multiple aspect : about Himself. And man also is somehow, tho in separate persons, a : unity, able to be referred to as a whole in the singular. "...male and : female He created them." The two, male and female, are a multiple : expression of the single being who has somehow a multiple aspect to Himself. : That's what the text says. Clearly, what we think of as male and : female, utterly different, are together in this one single being, : referred to as El and as Elohim. To say that there has to be a goddess : is to insist that God is no greater than man; man can indeed not be male : and female in one body (give the bioengineers a chance, tho....), but God : is not man. The Divine Principle view of the Unification Church holds that God is one, a unified being harmonizing the dual nature of masculinity and feminity and the dual natures of spirit and material/energy. As such, the perfect image of God is the couple, united perfectly in love. This ideal couple is known as the True Parents. Jesus came to fulfil the role of True Parents, with his bride who together would become the eternal Father and Mother of all humanity. Those who had already been born would be reborn into this new lineage. So, Jesus could say "Before Abraham was, I am." This role was originally to be fulfilled by Adam and Eve, but they fell into sin. It was not accomplished at Jesus' time because he did not marry. So we await the second coming of Christ, at which time this ideal will be fulfilled. So, it is prophecied in several books in the Bible regarding the two olive trees, the two witnesses, and the two anointed ones (Christs). In our age, this has been fulfilled by the life and teachings of Rev. Sun Myung Moon and his wife, Haj Ja Han Moon. Soon, all humanity will be reborn into God's lineage, and the dwelling place of God will be with men and women and in their sacred spiritual and physical union. Damian Anderson +1-301-921-0082 Home damian@unification.net DamianAndr@aol.com Unification Home Page http://www.unification.net French, Spanish, Korean, Japanese, ... and more, 13 languages and counting. See daily articles on alt.religion.unification, or to receive by e-mail, Send "subscribe unification-texts your name" to damian@unification.net Send "subscribe world-scripture your name" to damian@unification.net